Whitehorse, Yukon

Monday, December 4, 1989 - 1:30 p.m.

Speaker: I will now call the House to order.

We will proceed at this time with Prayers.

Prayers

DAILY ROUTINE

Tribute to Audrey McLaughlin: Leader of federal New Democratic Party

Hon. Ms. Joe: I rise on a point of privilege today. I rise on behalf of all the people of the Yukon who have voted for, and believed in, Audrey McLaughlin, the Yukon’s Member of Parliament.

I congratulate her on becoming the fourth Leader of the federal New Democratic Party. The NDP has made history with the election of the first woman leader of a national political party. The Yukon has shown, once again, that its elected representatives play a central role in leading and building this country.

Applause

Mr. Phelps: I would like to mention the telegram I sent to Audrey McLaughlin on Saturday night after her win. It reads: “Congratulations on a well-run campaign and a good win.” It is from me, as the Yukon Progressive Conservative Party Leader.

Condolences

Hon. Mr. Penikett: On a sadder note, I would like to note for Members the death from cancer of the mother of our colleague, the Hon. Maurice Byblow, Member for Faro and Minister of Community and Transportation Services. I am sure all Members would join me in extending condolences to our colleague to mourn the passing of his parent.

Condolences

Mr. Phelps: Also on a sad note, I would like to mention the passing away of John Devries’ father, Wilfred Devries. He passed away on December 1, in Jarvis, Ontario. Mr. Devries emigrated from Holland in the 1940s and raised seven children on his farm outside of Jarvis. He was 75 years old. I wish to extend our condolences to the Devries family at this time.

Speaker: Are there any Introduction of Visitors?

Are there any Returns or Documents for tabling?

TABLING RETURNS AND DOCUMENTS

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I have for tabling two items: one is the Public Accounts for 1989-90 and the second is a legislative return respecting education.

Speaker: Are there any Reports of Committees?

Are there any Petitions?

Introduction of Bills.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

Bill No. 102: Introduction and First Reading

Mr. Brewster: I move that Bill No. 102, entitled Act to Amend the Workers Compensation Act, be now introduced and read a first time.

Speaker:  It has  been moved by the hon. Member for Kluane that Bill No. 102, entitled Act to Amend the Workers Compensation Act, be now introduced and read a first time.

Motion for introduction and first reading of Bill No. 102 agreed to

TABLING RETURNS AND DOCUMENTS

Hon. Mr. Penikett: I apologize for being late in the orderly routine but I wonder if I could, with your permission, table the Annual Report of the Government of Yukon for the years 1988-89 today.

Speaker: Notices of Motion for the Production of Papers.

NOTICES OF MOTION FOR THE PRODUCTION OF PAPERS

Mrs. Firth: I have a motion for the production of papers that reads

THAT an order of this Assembly be issued for copies of all contracts signed between the Government of Yukon and Barry Stuart for the years 1985 to 1989, inclusively.

Speaker: Notices of Motion.

NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr. Phelps: I move

THAT it is the opinion of this House that the Government of Yukon should consider amending the procedure for conferring the Home Owner Grant so that the grant would be deducted from the tax payable rather than paid out to the home owner after the tax has been paid.

I move

THAT it is the opinion of this House that the Government of Yukon should consider the feasibility of providing a second television channel during the next fiscal year to those communities currently in receipt of one channel.

I move

THAT it is the opinion of this House that there should be more public participation in land development plans in rural Yukon and that such participation should be at all stages of preparing the land development plans.

Mrs. Firth: I give notice of the following motion

THAT it is the opinion of this House that the Yukon Human Rights Commission draft policy, entitled “Employment Related Medical Testing”, be amended by deleting the sentence in the first paragraph of the introduction, which reads as follows:

“For example, testing for drugs, alcohol or suspicion of AIDS and/or HIV virus before or after a person has been hired may be a violation under the Yukon Human Right Act on the basis of disability.”

I give notice of the following motion

THAT it is the opinion of this House that the Human Rights Commission’s spending authorities be subject to the Financial Administration Act, as are all other government departments or agencies which, according to the Financial Administration Act, includes any corporation, board, commission or committee established under any act.

Mr. Nordling: I give notice of the following motion:

THAT this House reprimand the Government of Yukon for its handling of the negotiations for the transfer of health services from the federal government.

Mr. Lang: I move

THAT it is the opinion of this House that the Government of Yukon be reprimanded for holding and storing PCB wastes in a heavily populated area contrary to a motion that was unanimously agreed to by this House.

Mr. Phillips: I give notice of the following motion:

THAT the Yukon Legislative Assembly is opposed to the goods and services tax as proposed by the Government of Canada.

Mr. Brewster: I give notice of motion

THAT this House urges the Government of Yukon to accept and approve Project ‘92 and show a more positive involvement in the 1992 Alaska Highway Anniversary.

I give notice

THAT this House urges the Federal Minister of Public Works to upgrade the section of the Alaska Highway between Haines Junction and Beaver Creek as the top priority in the Government of Canada’s Alaska Highway budget allocation.

I give notice of motion

THAT this House reprimands the Government of the Yukon for replacing the gold panner with the fireweed and the words “the Klondike” with the tourism slogan “the Magic and the Mystery” on Yukon motor vehicle licence plates; and

THAT it is the opinion of this House that the gold panner and the words “Home of the Klondike” should be restored to their rightful places on the Yukon motor vehicle licences.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Air quality study in Whitehorse: radon gas exceeding recommended levels

Hon. Mr. McDonald: I rise today to inform this House of the preliminary results of an air quality study being undertaken in Whitehorse, and the actions we are taking to assist homeowners in preventing and alleviating indoor air pollution problems.

Today, we are becoming increasingly aware of the impact that energy use, particularly fossil fuels, has on the global environment. We also know that improving the energy efficiency of our homes is one of the most cost-effective ways of reducing the environmental impact of energy use. The Yukon government supports energy saving through the Saving Energy Action Loan (SEAL) program, which provides interest-free loans for improving the energy efficiency of residences and commercial buildings.

While energy saving is an important goal that can help in maintaining the health of our outdoor environment, it is essential that it be undertaken in a manner that does not compromise the quality of our indoor environment. This is of particular concern in the Yukon, since we spend a great part of our time indoors during the winter months.

For that reason, the Yukon energy and mines branch contracted earlier this year with the Yukon Home Builders Association (YHBA) to conduct a study of the indoor air quality in selected Whitehorse homes.

This interest in the quality of air we breathe is clearly shared by many Whitehorse residents. More than 200 homeowners came forward in response to advertisements asking for volunteers for the study. From these volunteers, 75 homes were selected throughout the Whitehorse area. Testing identified several potential air quality problems, the most serious of which is radon. Preliminary test results showed that a number of the homes tested exceeded the recommended levels for radon established by Health and Welfare Canada.

Radon is a colorless, odorless, potentially carcinogenic gas naturally occurring in most soils, which is produced by the breakdown of radioactive material. It typically enters buildings through cracks in the foundation or through exposed soil and rock in crawl spaces. This problem is certainly not unique to the Yukon. Indeed, radon is found worldwide.

Nonetheless, radon poses a potentially serious health risk to Yukon people. It is a risk that this government recognizes, and is already taking actions to address. I will now briefly outline those actions.

The people involved in the testing will be informed of the results.

Testing for radon will now be done as part of the SEAL program’s energy audit process.

For those people who have already taken part in SEAL, information will be made available on how to have their homes or businesses tested for radon.

For those homeowners and business owners who discover high levels of radon, recommendations will be made on how to reduce radon levels.

Work to reduce radon levels is typically inexpensive, normally involving sealing to prevent radon’s entry, and ventilating properly to reduce its concentration. As it happens, these types of renovations are already available for funding under SEAL. In many instances, it seems, work to improve the energy efficiency of a building will also reduce the levels of radon.

This government is also committed to providing more information on radon to the public. I am pleased to inform this House that the Department of Economic Development’s energy and mines branch will be undertaking a number of public education initiatives in the new year.

We will release the report, along with a summary, early in the new year.

We will also be sponsoring an evening seminar on radon for the general public, and a technical session in conjunction with the Yukon Home Builders Association, for builders and contractors.

Energy and Mines staff members will be available to answer technical questions on radon and can provide current information from other jurisdictions, such as Manitoba, where radon is also a concern.

We will also be gathering more information on air quality, both within Whitehorse and around the Yukon. Air quality testing is already being undertaken in schools and other public buildings. Further action will be taken across the Yukon under the guidance of an intergovernmental working group.

To conclude, I am pleased to say that we are taking immediate action to asses and improve the indoor air quality in Yukon homes and businesses.

QUESTION PERIOD

Question re: Licence plates

Mr. Phelps: I have some questions about the new motor vehicle licence plates that were unveiled in this House last week, which are controversial to say the least. We are particularly upset by the removal of the gold panner from the licence plate, and my question to the Minister of Tourism is whether he, or anyone from this government, consulted with the Tourism Industry Association about this drastic change?

Hon. Mr. Webster: The answer is no.

Mr. Phelps: The licence plate is seen throughout North America and Europe from time to time. It is an important component of our publicity for tourism in the Yukon. Can the Minister tell us why he or his government did not consult with the tourism association about this change?

Hon. Mr. Webster: One of the reasons why we did not consult with the tourism industry on this matter is that when you start to consult with one organization, you have to consult with another and another and so on. We all know how difficult it is to come to a consensus on a new design for a licence plate or a new logo for an association, et cetera.

Mr. Phelps: Is this a new policy of the government? When there is likely to be a controversy, you do not consult with any associations or Yukoners before making a decision?

Hon. Mr. Webster: No, it is not.

Question re: Licence plates

Mr. Phelps: From where I sit, the change seems to be particularly insensitive to Dawson City, the heart of the Klondike. I am wondering if the Minister consulted with the Klondike Visitors Association about removing the gold panner from the licence plate?

Hon. Mr. Webster: Again, the answer is no. I should point out to the Member opposite that this change is to reflect the wilderness character of the Yukon and the new licence plate is consistent with the Yukon tourism strategy. I suggest that we try them out more openly to exhibit that wilderness aspect of the territory.

Mr. Phelps: I take it then that the Minister did not consult with the municipal council of Dawson City about removing the gold panner from the licence plate?

Hon. Mr. Webster: Again, the Member is correct.

Mr. Phelps: Does the Minister feel in his heart of hearts that the removal of the gold panner is an insult to the placer mining industry, to Skookum Jim, Tagish Charlie and Chief Henderson who discovered gold in the Klondike?

Hon. Mr. Webster: No, I do not consider it an insult.

Question re: Licence plates

Mr. Phillips: My question is for the Minister of Tourism and relates to the change to the Yukon licence plate. In four weeks, we are entering into the 1990s. It is the era of the gold rush in the Yukon. It is a significant event in Yukon’s history. This government is doing away with the gold panner and the Klondike theme. Why have we decided to remove two of the more significant items from our licence plate as we are entering the 100-year celebration of the gold rush era?

Hon. Mr. Webster: We are doing it for a number of reasons. One is to promote tourism through the promotion of the wilderness aspect of the territory. I would like to remind the Member that this is for a five-year cycle. Licence plates are good for five-year cycles. We have made a commitment for the next cycle, 1995 to the year 2000, during which time there will be centennial celebrations to commemorate the discovery of Klondike gold and the Klondike Gold Rush, to return to the gold panner theme. That was made clear in the ministerial statement. Unfortunately, the Members opposite refuse to acknowledge that. We have not completely abandoned the gold panner. We are temporarily replacing one symbol of the Yukon with another. It is a very attractive plate. It will draw a lot of attention to the Yukon. It will do much to improve tourism.

Mr. Phillips: In 1986, a report, entitled the “U.S. Pleasure Travel Marketing Canadian Potential,” said that U.S. visitors already believe that all of Canada is beautiful and possesses great outdoors. It also stated in that report that what Canada should attempt to do is to develop themes if they do not have themes in certain areas. We have a theme in the Yukon. In light of this information, why would they decide to remove the internationally-known gold panner and the Klondike theme from our license plate? That is our theme. We are entering into the 1990s, gold rush era, in four weeks.

Hon. Mr. Webster: I thought that I had carefully explained this. This is a five-year cycle we are entering. The last five years of this decade we will be in the Klondike centennial era, at which time the gold panner will return. The gold panner and home of the Klondike is only one theme. There are others. One that has caught on and has become very popular in the last few years is “The Magic... The Mystery”. We have more than one theme to accurately portray the Yukon and that we want to promote. We have more than one symbol. If the Member has great objections to our proposal to change the licence plate, I would suggest that he remember that we are only requiring one licence plate to appear on the rear of the vehicle. He has the ability to apply the gold panner plate on the front of his vehicle. We can then promote two different symbols of the territory and two different themes.

Mr. Phillips: I would question the legality of that. If you are driving in another province and you have one number on the front of your vehicle and one number on the back, I think you would be pulled over immediately. The government has decided to remove the slogan “The Klondike” and replace it with the slogan “The Magic... The Mystery”. The slogan itself leads us to ask what the mystery is. Did the Minister or any official in his government consult with the Klondike Visitors Association or the Tourism Industry Association with respect to changing this slogan? If they did not consult, why not?

Hon. Mr. Webster: I have already answered that: we did not consult. On the matter about the legality of putting a licence plate on the front of the vehicle when you are only required to have one on the rear: many people already purchase the gold panner licence plate of the Yukon with the four-zeros number on it as a souvenir. It is quite legal for that to be on the front of the vehicle. The whole argument about the legality of having a licence plate on the front of the vehicle is, like the Member opposite, out-to-lunch.

Question re: Vehicle licence fees

Mr. Lang: On the same subject, I would like to direct a couple of questions to the Minister of Finance, and they have to do with the fees that were announced in the ministerial statement. It was overshadowed with the magic and the mystery. Was the Minister of Finance aware of the 44 percent increase in motor vehicle licence fees prior to tabling his budget?

Hon. Mr. McDonald: Yes, there is no magic or mystery about that. The fee increase that was announced in the budget speech and reflected in the main estimates was known to me, as I am sure the Member is well aware.

Mr. Lang: To pursue this a little further, it seems like we have a different position on different days. When the budget came down, the Minister of Finance took great pains to tell everybody in the Yukon that there was not going to be an increase in taxation. If he knew there was going to be a 44 percent increase in licence fees, why did he make the statement that there would be no increase in taxation?

Hon. Mr. McDonald: Obviously for the Member, the issue is quite complex, and it is complex enough to be beyond his comprehension. The fee increase is exactly that; it is a charge for a service. Taxes are to extract revenue for general government purposes. That is the reason the distinction was made. The distinction was not only made in the budget speech, which indicated the existence of both the no-taxes phrase and the fee increase for licence plates, but revenue projections are also recognized in the revenue allotment in the main estimates book the Member received last week.

Mr. Lang: I am sure it was an oversight that the Minister did not highlight that in his budget speech. In view of the fact we are now on a five-year cycle with the new magic and the mystery, could the Minister bring forward to this House how much the design and cost of producing this new plate is going to cost the territory, in view of the fact that he and everyone else is going to have to undergo a 44 percent increase in rates?

Hon. Mr. McDonald: The Member is not listening to the answers. As I have just indicated, the notation about the licence plate fee increases that were announced in the budget were highlighted in the budget as something for Members to take note. There is no magic and there is no mystery about that.

As I indicated as Minister of Community and Transportation Services some time ago, the creation of new licence plates was something the territory did require, because the useful term of the licence plate we currently have was coming to an end. There were too few numerical combinations for the system to handle and, consequently, an entirely new design had to be created for a licence plate. As we have come to the end of that particular cycle, and are beginning another cycle, Members were given notice some years ago that a new licence plate would be required. In fact there were some design proposals put forward. I am sure Members will remember the black raven and the paddlewheeler as two items that were actually noted in the Whitehorse media.

Question re: Family violence, staff recruitment

Mr. Nordling: In a ministerial statement made on November 22, the Minister of Health and Human Resources announced his department had hired two new staff people to work exclusively on new programs in the area of family violence. On April 18, 1989, in budget debate, the same Minister announced that, and I quote, “There are two new term positions for family violence programs.”

Was the Minister’s ministerial statement a re-announcement of those two positions, which were included in last year’s budget?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: The ministerial statement, as I recall it, was the announcement of implementation of two new programs that would be delivered by the two staff people mentioned by the Member.

Mr. Nordling: I am not sure that I caught all of the Minister’s mumbled answer. I would like to know if we have four full-time people in Health and Human Resources working exclusively on family violence.

Hon. Mr. Penikett: I am sure there are many more than four people working on family violence in the Department of Health and Human Resources. As to the adjective “exclusively”, I could not tell the Member exactly how many because there are people, for example, working in the child protection area, who would be dealing, in by far the largest part of their work, with the consequences of family violence. The ministerial statement, I repeat, was about two new program elements that we were putting into place effective November 1 - I believe that was the operating day. That was new information for the House, provided in a timely and appropriate way.

Mr. Nordling: Are the two new positions announced November 22 term positions or are they permanent positions?

Hon. Mr. Penikett: Not having my budget book before me, this being Question Period and not the estimates debate...

Some Hon. Member: You made a ministerial statement about it.

Hon. Mr. Penikett: Forgive me, Mr. Speaker, but it is not even permissible in the rules to ask questions about the nature of -

Mr. Speaker, the rules of Question Period - if Members across the way would care to read them - are about policy questions on urgent matters. If the Members want to ask questions that require me to check the estimate book, I will be happy to take notice and answer them either tomorrow or when we get into the estimates debate.

Mr. Nordling: Are they permanent or term positions?

Question re: Judge/land claims negotiator

Mrs. Firth: The government does have convenient memory lapses.

My question is for the Minister of Justice, and it is in regard to a statement she made in the Legislature on November 23, 1989, with respect to sabbatical leaves for judges and in particular to questions we were asking about the land claims negotiator. I will quote the Minister’s comment; it was in regard to the regulations for judges’ sabbaticals. On page 569 of Hansard, November 23, 1989, the Minister said, and I quote, “The regulations have already been approved and those are the regulations we will be dealing with as we do for all other sabbaticals in this government.”

Could the Minister clarify and expand the answer she gave that day?

Hon. Ms. Joe: She has quoted something from Hansard that I had said, and I am not exactly sure what it is that she is trying to clarify. The regulations that I was talking about were the regulations for sabbaticals for judges, and that is all the regulations had provision for: sabbaticals for judges. There may have been some interpretation in the response that indicated that it could be for other employees, but the regulations themselves were for sabbaticals for judges.

Mrs. Firth: Obviously the Minister does not remember what she said; she has a bit of a problem remembering things. The comment said that the sabbatical that she made for judges was the same as for all other employees. Does the Minister agree that for all other public servants and teachers, a sabbatical is for educational purposes only?

Hon. Ms. Joe: In my response to the Member I was referring also to other benefits that could be provided for other government employees. I think that she may be trying to misinterpret the kind of things I said; she does things like that quite often. I was referring to other benefits that employees were provided under this government, whether they be teachers, judges, or other government employees. There are certain benefits that are allowed them.

Mrs. Firth: It is interesting, I do not have to come to the House to apologize for whatever it is the Minister said I did.

Does the Minister agree that for judges, a sabbatical can be for any purpose?

Hon. Ms. Joe: The sabbaticals that are provided for judges are provided on approval of the Chief Judge. It is expected that those judges will use that sabbatical for educational purposes.

Question re: Judge/land claims negotiator

Mrs. Firth: The Minister said in the House that the regulations that she was bringing forward for judges’ sabbaticals were the same as we do for all other sabbaticals in this government. She stood up in the House and said that very clearly. There is no misinterpretation or misrepresentation. That is what she said. The policy that she approved, the Judicial Sabbatical Regulations reads, in Clause 2(2), that “...a sabbatical leave under subsection 1 shall be for a continuous period of not more than 12 consecutive months, shall be scheduled by the Chief Judge and shall be for such educational or other purposes as the Chief Judge may approve.”

Nowhere in the rules or regulations regarding sabbaticals for teachers or public servants does it say that it can be for other purposes. We are talking about paid leave for educational purposes only. Will the Minister agree that she was wrong in saying that this policy was the same as for all other public servants?

Hon. Ms. Joe: I have already stated in the previous question that the response that I gave was in regard to benefits that were allowed other employees. There is provision for sabbatical leave for judges, sabbatical leave for teachers and other benefits that are allowed employees of this government. They vary from many different things to a possible educational leave that could last as long as one year.

I know what she is trying to do. It is a game she plays all the time. She is trying to put words in my mouth that she has interpreted from things she has read in Hansard.

Mrs. Firth: These words came right out of the Minister’s mouth. It is recorded in Hansard. I did not put them there. They came right out of her mouth, and the Hansard operators recorded it.

Now that we have determined that this is a special category of sabbaticals for judges, why are we treating these people in this privileged way and not as we do with all other public servants?

Hon. Ms. Joe: There are other privileges and benefits allowed employees of this government. If the Member wants, I can send her a list of all of those benefits that are allowed them. Many employees of this government have taken advantage of them. They may not be what the teachers are getting or what the judges are getting, but there are many benefits that the employees have bargained for and have gotten.

Mrs. Firth: I have the list. No other public servant is allowed to take a paid leave for anything other than educational purposes. Period. I would like to ask the Minister if she will re-examine this special policy and make it the same for all other government employees as she first said in the House: that it was the same for all other government employees. Will she re-examine it and make it the same?

Hon. Ms. Joe: I have already answered that question in a previous question period. There are regulations that have been approved for judges. I am not changing them at this point in time. There are other benefits provided for employees of the government. I have no intention of changing the regulations that have been approved for judges.

Question re: Judge/land claims negotiator

Mrs. Firth: We have determined we have a special category of sabbaticals for judges. The first person to benefit from this special policy is the land claims negotiator, who has not been on the bench for four years. He is getting a paid holiday for a year and then he can have another six months off without pay, if he wishes. That is not included for all other employees. That makes a grand total of five and one-half years off the bench, if he takes the full leave, that we have had to keep his job open for him, to bring in deputy judges, to pay an income of over half a million dollars. A paid holiday? A paid holiday for $56,000 for one year? Then another six months, if he wants; that is the grand total.

Why does this individual get such special privileges?

Hon. Ms. Joe: The Member is aware that negotiations and discussions have been going on for a number of years with regard to sabbaticals for judges. She knows that because she does her homework. It has been going on since long before I became a Minister, long before the previous Minister became a Minister. It is not something new; that we thought of in the last two months. Those discussions have been ongoing.

We provided for that sabbatical in the regulations. It is not something new, it is something that we agreed they would be entitled to. That is my answer.

Mrs. Firth: This person has not been on the bench for four years. We are not talking about a judge here, we are talking about a land claims negotiator. He has not been on the bench for four years. If it was not the intention of this government to give the land claims negotiator a paid holiday will the Minister go back to that individual and renegotiate the contract?

Hon. Ms. Joe: I was not party to the negotiations for his contract when he became the land claims negotiator.

Mrs. Firth: She has signed an agreement in June giving him a paid holiday for a year, and six months additional holiday without pay, if he wishes. That was the Minister’s contribution to the agreement. If it was not the intention to give the land claims negotiator a paid holiday will she renegotiate the contract that she signed?

Hon. Ms. Joe: I have already answered the question. I do not know how many times I can say the same thing.

We did not negotiate with the chief land claims negotiator for a paid holiday. We did not do that. That is her interpretation of it. She has had the contract for a long time and knows it well. I am not going to change anything in the regulations, nor am I going to change the terms and conditions of that contract that I signed.

Question re: Judge/land claims negotiator

Mrs. Firth: I will try again. She has said she did not negotiate with the land claims negotiator for a holiday. She said in this House on November 23, 1989, on page 569 of Hansard, “This sabbatical is for educational purposes, and that is what sabbaticals are for.” That was in reference to the sabbatical that was going to be given to the land claims negotiator.

The land claims negotiator said on June 27, 1989, three days before he signed the contract with this government, that he was going to take a sabbatical and he said, and he was quoted, “I want to relax a little first. I want to do some writing - finish the book on Johnny Johns ... basically catch up to myself.”

Who do we believe? Do we believe the person who tells us that he is going to take a holiday, or do we believe the Minister who gives wrong answers in the House, who says it was for educational leave. She gives wrong answers, she gets confused, she has had to come to the House and apologize. She cannot remember what she signed. Who are we supposed to believe?

Any agreement can be renegotiated. On behalf of the Yukon taxpayers will the Minister, because she was confused, because she could not remember signing the agreement, make a commitment to go back and renegotiate that contract with that individual?

Hon. Ms. Joe: It is interesting to sit here and listen to a preamble that should be a part of a question when, in fact, it was a long speech.

I know they only believe what they want to believe. They read something in the paper, and they hear somebody say something else and, if you give them an answer, they do not listen to it anyway. The fact is that the regulations provide for a sabbatical for the judges: a year for educational purposes. I think the individual in question knows what that sabbatical does include. If she has read something else in the paper, then she has read something that she is putting together to cause a bit of a problem.

I believe that individual will take a sabbatical and that that individual will make sure the sabbatical is for educational purposes.

Mrs. Firth: I operate strictly on the basis of facts, and I have brought forward the facts. It is the Minister who has been forgetful and confused, not I.

I want to make a representation on behalf of the Yukon taxpayer. We want the Minister to go back and renegotiate that contract. At most, that individual should be given six months leave without pay...

Speaker: Order please. Would the Member please get to the supplementary question.

Mrs. Firth: Yes, I will, Mr. Speaker. ...leave without pay, and I am sure that individual will consider himself fortunate he still has a job.

Will the Minister give the public a commitment to go back to that individual and do that?

Hon. Ms. Joe: Once again, the Member is out of order by making a representation during Question Period, and she does it very often and very effectively.

I have agreed to the sabbatical. The land claims negotiator will be taking that sabbatical, and I do not intend to change that, as I am sure the Minister of Education would not change one for a teacher.

Mrs. Firth: When you work for this government, and you are a friend of this government, you write your own ticket. You write your own ticket. I will tell you, there are a lot of public servants out there who object to this inequity, and so does the taxpayer. This decision...

Speaker: Order please. Would the Member please get to the supplementary.

Mrs. Firth: Yes, I will. The responsibility for this decision lies on the shoulders of this Minister and on the shoulders of this government.

Hon. Ms. Joe: Once again, she has gotten up and made a speech. Prior to that, she got up and made a representation. If she is going to ask a question, I would respectfully request that she does ask a question.

Question re: Shooting of Bison bull

Mr. Brewster: My question really fits in with all the bull that is flying around today. This fall, the Department of Renewable Resources killed a bull buffalo because it was supposed to be leading a herd of buffalo. Although the department was told that bulls do not lead herds, that cows lead herds, they chose to execute this bull.

What was done to the meat of this executed bull?

Hon. Mr. Webster: The meat from that bull bison was destroyed. The type of tranquilizer that was used in the bull when it was removed from the Tok area in Alaska could pose some risk to humans if ingested.

Mr. Brewster: For his information, the drug used was a narcotic. It is M99. Maybe I should teach him a few lessons.

Will the Minister deny that the meat was left there for predators to have and is now in the food chain cycle of coyotes, fox, wolf and grizzly bear?

Hon. Mr. Webster: I am not aware if that was the case. I will find out and report back.

Mr. Brewster: I am a little dumbfounded when a Minister makes a statement like that. Why was the bull not donated to the game farm, which is violently crying for animals for a tourist attraction. Instead, it was shot and predators ate the meat which was condemned.

Hon. Mr. Webster: The bull was offered to the Yukon Game Farm, but it was not accepted.

Mr. Brewster: Would the Minister repeat that statement about the game farm refusing this animal?

Hon. Mr. Webster: I was informed that the bull was offered to the Yukon Game Farm before it was shot and that it was not accepted.

Question re: Hootalinqua North Plan

Mr. Phelps: I have some questions about the Hootalinqua North Plan. The Minister responsible for that plan is away. I do have some questions for the Minister of Renewable Resources arising from a letter sent to the Minister of Community and Transportation Services and copied to this Minister and myself. The Livestock and Agricultural Association asked the Minister for a working group to be appointed to undertake a review of the current draft plan that would have the power to change the current documents. Does the Minister support this request? If he does, will he communicate that to the Minister?

Hon. Mr. Webster: I support the suggestion made by the members of the Yukon Livestock and Agricultural Association. I understand that the suggestion will be followed up with some action.

Mr. Phelps: Is the Minister prepared to meet with the Livestock and Agricultural Association with regard to the numerous complaints they have about the draft plan and the way it is being handled?

Hon. Mr. Webster: I can only assume that the Minister responsible for that district plan would be more than happy to meet with the concerned citizens in the area.

Question re: Shooting of Bison bull

Mr. Brewster: Does the Minister understand the effects of the M99? How long will it remain in the other buffalo that are running at large?

Hon. Mr. Webster: I am not fully conversant with the long-term effects of the drug that was used to tranquilize the bulls. I do know that the meat was not retained or provided for use by humans because of its detrimental effects.

Mr. Brewster: Is it true that the department, when it cannot handle the number of buffalo it has now, is planning to bring in a large group of buffalo from Alberta?

Hon. Mr. Webster: That is the long-term goal of the department in its efforts to establish another free-ranging herd in the country.

Mr. Brewster: What does the Minister intend to do to control the ones that are now running out over the highway in an area where no livestock is allowed?

Hon. Mr. Webster: The department has no plans at this time to try to remove the bison from the side of the highway. We are making effort to notify the travelling public of the location and behaviour of the bison.

Question re: Shooting of Bison bull

Mr. Lang: I am sure that the buffalo are very happy to hear that, in view of the drastic steps the department took here a number of months ago with the lead bull. I am very concerned with the reply that the Minister gave to the Member for Kluane, respecting the use of the drug and not knowing the long-term effects of the drugs that have been used on these buffalo. Does neither the Minister nor the department know the long-term effects of this particular type of drug on buffalo?

Hon. Mr. Webster: Obviously members of the department know the long-term effects but speaking personally, from my own point of view, I do not, admittedly, know the long-term effects that such a drug would have on an animal of that size. I am sure that members in the department are quite familiar with this drug, its use and its effects.

Question re: Shooting of Bison bull

Mr. Brewster: I would like to ask the Minister one more question. He apparently does not know, and I have talked with other biologists and they are not sure - not biologists in his department because of course they would defend it. Are there any other animals running around in the Yukon that have had this narcotic M99 put in them?

Hon. Mr. Webster: I cannot be certain about that. I will have to bring that information back to the House.

Mr. Brewster: Thank you. This is kind of a hypothetical question, yet it is not. If someone poaches the other bull out there and ate that meat - and we have a lot of poaching going on - what would happen to that individual?

Hon. Mr. Webster: Well, fortunately, that would be one person whom we would not have to bring to trial for poaching. It is a hypothetical question; I will come back with an answer.

Speaker: The time for Question Period has now lapsed. We will now proceed to Orders of the Day.

Government Bills?

GOVERNMENT MOTIONS

Bill No. 19 - adjourned debate

Clerk: Second reading, Bill No. 19, standing in the name of the Hon. Mr. McDonald, adjourned debate, Mrs. Firth.

Mrs. Firth: Well, Mr. Speaker, I guess you see something new every day in this Legislature now. The government returned to office for their second term and boy, I know the meaning of the phrase “the honeymoon is over” when I watch the performance of the Members in the front bench opposite today.

I rise to make comments on behalf of the constituents I represent, and of course on behalf of all Yukoners, again, in response to the combined operating and maintenance budget and the capital budget of the year 1990-91 that has been tabled by this government. Here we see a good attempt by the new Minister of Finance - a good attempt on his behalf - to give Yukoners a feeling that the government is really taking care of them and that everything that they are doing is in the best interests of the Yukon people. But when you look at the facts - and again I prefer to deal with facts and I do not like to put words into people’s mouths, particularly on the opposite side; I would not even think of doing that - you have to take a look at the figures in the budget itself and some of the so-called benefits to the Yukon public. When I examine budget documents, I am always very interested in the person-year component that is associated with that budget and the dollars that accompany that person-year component. When I looked at the person-year component for this new budget in the budget lockup, I questioned the person-year allotment, which was 1,766.8 person years. We were told at that time that some of the person years had been taken out of the Department of Education for Yukon College and were no longer listed in the budget.

So that was fine; we knew there were 148 person years that had not been accounted for. I took it one step further and examined the person-year complement for the budget O&M estimates for 1986-87. The person-year complement was 1,632.3, about 130 person years less than this budget of three or four years later. I looked up the allotment that had been attached to those two figures in dollars and cents. Not to make a very simple issue sound too complicated, for the year 1986-87 and the 1600-plus person years, there was an allotment of $73 million. That is the money to pay the salaries of those 1600-plus person years. Then I looked at the allotment of the money in the 1990-91 budget to pay for the 1700-plus person years - this budget indicated 130 more person years - and it was at $130,716,000.

That was a difference of $30 million for 130 person years. I would submit to the Minister of Finance that that is very magical and very mysterious. I hope that we are going to get an explanation of that particular issue. Even if you add in the extra 148 person years for the Yukon College, there are still about 270 or so employees, and salary dollars attached to that are $30 million.

I hope the Minister is going to be prepared to present us with some detailed person-year figures, as he did last session. He can consider this notice that we will be asking specific questions about person years and would he be so good as to present us with a documented sheet of where all the changes and re-allocations have been made.

We will also be wanting to know what the person-year complements of the corporations are. The housing corporation does not have a person-year complement in and neither does the liquor corporation or the development corporation. I am sure the Minister will be most cooperative in giving us those figures as well.

I would also like to give the Minister advance notice that I will be wanting to know what the dollar figure is that is going to be attached to the 148 person years that went to Yukon College. In the budget lockup, we were able to find that it was 148 person years and that the total grant to the Yukon College was going to be approximately $8.7 million dollars, but we could not get an answer as to what part of that $8.7 million was designated specifically to the person-year complement of Yukon College. I will be looking forward to the Minister bringing in answers to those specific questions.

It is interesting that this budget is predicting a $6.7 million surplus. It then states that that will cover the negotiations of wage increases and it is also supposed to provide a reserve for normal supplementaries. The supplementaries that we are going to be debating in this Legislature this afternoon and in the next couple of weeks, from last year’s budget, were $22.7 million. We also have negotiations with the unions to enter into, such as the teachers, the YGEU and managers’ raises, which I am sure there will be negotiations for. I would submit that $6.7 million is going to be nowhere near enough a surplus or a reserve to cover normal supplementaries or the wage increases that are going to be negotiated in the course of this next coming year.

I guess that is why we have predictions of a $17 million deficit. It would probably be safe to say the deficits may be even higher than that.

I want to take particular issue with some of the changes that have come about in this government. When I look through the budget book, I see a remarkable growth now in assistant deputy ministers. All of a sudden, the Executive Council Office has three assistant deputy ministers. Before, they did not even have one, until there was an announcement put in the paper when we were last sitting that the position was filled on a secondment basis. Now, the Executive Council Office is going to have three assistant deputy ministers, while the Economic Development office is going to have two assistant deputy ministers, plus a deputy minister. The Department of Education is going to have two assistant deputy ministers. The Department of Finance has two assistant deputy ministers. Government Services is going to have two assistant deputy ministers. Health and Human Resources is going to have two assistant deputy ministers. Justice is going to have an assistant deputy minister - it did not have one before - and Community and Transportation Services is going to have another assistant deputy minister.

We are talking about new positions that are, as in the last advertised ADM position, in the salary range of up to $76,000 or $77,000 a year for all these new positions. This is the government that is saying, we are doing this for you, we are going to give you better government because of this. I do not think the people out there who are paying the bills are going to feel reassured by the Minister of Finance that their life is going to be any easier when it comes to dealing with government because we now have 14 new assistant deputy ministers at $77,000 each.

We will be looking for some more justification from the Minister of Finance about when all these person years were approved and why the government feels its job has become so onerous and that it has so much to do we have to have all these managers and top level officials with these high wages in all these assistant deputy minister positions. That is on top of each one of those departments having its own deputy minister and a Minister to look after the department.

I think we will probably get some very interesting responses back when we hear from the Minister of Finance later on this afternoon in one of his impassioned speeches.

I listened very carefully to the Minister of Health and Human Resources when he got up and made his presentation and response to the budget speech. I listened to him and listened to the comments he made, took note of his five points. All the time, I got more and more angry, and I got more and more ill listening to the presentation he was making.

We all recognize that health care costs in the Yukon have just gone through the roof - through the sky, or whatever you want to say. Health care costs have become so overbearing that my opinion is that health care in the Yukon, with us being able to pay for health care costs, is in a crisis situation.

This is nothing new to the Minister of Health and Human Resources. He has been there for the last year.

This is not something that has just happened overnight. For the Minister to claim that this is something that has just come up and just developed in some sneaky way without them knowing anything about it is totally and absolutely nonsensical. This has not happened overnight.

I can remember standing up in this House five years ago, when this government first took office, when they first made the big decision to abolish medicare premiums, which no one had asked them to do - no one that we had seen in any public forum coming to the government and lobbying in an active way to abolish Medicare premiums. We raised all these issues. We talked about preventive medicine. We talked about the lost revenues from abolishing medicare premiums. We raised the points with the government about the crises in other areas of Canada and the world with health care costs and the rapidly escalating health care costs.

The government could not even present an argument about why they were doing it; they were just doing it. There was nothing the Opposition could say that would convince the government to even re-examine the position they took.

Over the past four or five years that has probably amounted to $15 million or $20 million that we would have been getting in revenues. At the time we were talking $2.9 million or $3 million. With the increase of population, that figure would have increased.

That was a political decision this government made. It had nothing to do with what demands the people of the Yukon were putting on the health system. It was a decision that this group of individuals made.

After that happened, they expanded the chronic disease list. That was another policy decision made by this government. We again raised concern and asked how thoroughly the government had examined that decision. We were told that the decision would cost the Yukon taxpayer about $176,000 more a year. In the last budget debate and the last annual report that the former Minister of Health tabled, the costs for the chronic disease list were well in excess of $600,000 a year. I am expecting they are closer to $1 million, if not over, because part of the upcoming supplementary estimates are to address the expansion of that chronic disease program. Again the Members opposite were given good, healthy, constructive suggestions from the side opposite, and they ignored them.

Three times, the Auditor General issued reports identifying cost over expenditures in the Department of Health and Human Resources. One item was illegal and two were legalized by bringing supplementary estimates into the Legislature.

The Opposition raised an issue in this Legislature about the control mechanism within the Department of Health and Human Resources under the former Minister. We asked for her resignation, because we were concerned about what was happening in that department. The Government Leader ignored us, and told us that she was the most caring and concerned Minister of Health. However, her costs were escalating; the department was growing; we were bringing these issues to the attention of the Minister and to the attention of the Government Leader and nothing was done. The Minister cannot stand here and say that this is something that has just happened.

Every year we debated the budget; the Opposition drew attention to the rising costs in Health and Human Resources. We debated the issue of a healthy economy. If the economy was healthy, why were health care costs still going up so much? Was the government examining this? We never received any answers, any concrete plan or priorities of decision making, or direction, or any philosophical approach within the Department of Health and Human Resources.

Every time we raised an issue with the department, the Opposition was criticized by both the media and government Members for raising issues for political reasons. We were raising them for reasons of concern. We now see what the concern is. The Health and Human Resources budget is $10 million more per year than it was four years ago. It is taking a huge increase in this budget. I believe the government is referring to it as a two percent increase. That is before they put in the two supplementary estimates - one supplementary for close to $1 million in 1988-89 supplementaries, and a $6.2 million supplementary estimate in the 1989-90 supplementaries, which really makes the overall increase more like 14 percent.

Not only have we increased it by $10 million over the past four years, we are going to increase it by another 14 percent this year.

I have to ask the Minister of Health where his priorities are. How does he make decisions within the department? I listen to his five points. Health care costs are rising rapidly and it is no different in the Yukon. We told him that five years ago before he abolished medicare premiums. Health budget forecasts are inadequate. The Auditor General told him that and we told him that three years ago. He never did anything about it.

They are taking steps to improve budgeting, so we are going to hear that there are steps being taken within the department to improve the budgeting process. I will be very interested in hearing what those steps are. As I understand it, we still cannot follow up on whether people who are living in the Yukon or living out of the Yukon are being covered by us when it comes to health care premiums. The government still has not got that under control. We have the Minister of Health standing up and saying that there will be efforts to control costs in the short term. We will be very interested in seeing what those efforts are. We raised this when it came time to debate the chronic disease list expansion. Those were costs in the short term that could have been controlled before they made a decision to go ahead and expand the list. Perhaps it may have been lower on their list of priorities, but I do not think they had any priorities.

The be-all and end-all that the Minister of Health has come up with, like he invented this idea, is preventive medicine. He is now going to take the Department of Health and Human Resources in the direction of preventive medicine. Now that our health care costs are more than $10 million more per year than they were four years ago when we first started talking preventive medicine and not that we are looking at a 14 percent increase in this year’s health budget, we are going to talk about preventive medicine. He is late. Preventive medicine costs money. It is going to cost money on top of what is in the budget now. This government should have been looking at preventive medicine four and five years ago.

Then we talk about the health care transfer, something that has been going on and on for five years, ever since the former Minister of Health wrote the letter to Jake Epp, the then Minister of Health and Welfare Canada, and told him that they were not interested in the health care transfer at this time. They flatly and completely expressed no interest in assuming responsibility. We could have been making all these decisions about our hospital, our personnel, the services we want to give to the public, the priorities, preventive medicine, et cetera. We could have been doing all that here. I know that there would have been cost effectiveness and saving attached if we had the responsibility to do it ourselves.

Now, the Minister of Health, who has been there for one year, comes in with this major problem, his department is out of control and the budget is out of control, or whatever it is that he is going to blame for this problem. I would like to know what he has done in the last year. Even under the former Minister, whose resignation we requested, the supplementary estimates were never near what this new Minister of Health has brought in: a supplementary for $6.2 million in the last year that he has been the Minister of Health and Human Resources. I really have to question the competence, the ability to make decisions, the ability to set priorities and the ability to lead Yukoners in any direction when it comes to the delivery of health services. I have to question the present Minister of Health and Human Resources. I am sure we will all have a lot more time to debate those specific issues when we come to that department in the overall budget debates.

We have a government that makes political and policy decisions and sometimes we are not quite sure where the priorities are. Maybe they have a problem with that as well. I can remember sitting in this Legislature listening to the Minister of Justice tell us that we were going to have a human rights commission in this territory that was going to be the greatest human rights commission and that it was going to cost us $70,000 per year.

Well, we now have a budget for the Human Rights Commission of some $290,000 this year, an increase that the government, again, is saying is a modest increase. I believe it is about an 18 percent increase, but they say nothing about the supplementary estimates that we are going to be debating later that have a supplementary line for the Department of Justice in excess of $1 million. That is about $900,000 or $1 million in supplementaries for the Department of Justice, $10,000 of which is a supplementary for the Human Rights Commission. It is very convenient for us to bring a supplementary estimate in to pay the cost overruns of the Human Rights Commission; that is the way this government operates. Our position was that they should find that within their budget and that was what we were all told in public. The executive director said it publicly, the chairperson of the Human Rights Commission told us in this Legislature that they were going to find the money within their budget. But then there is a $10,000 supplementary identified for the Human Rights Commission.

Not only do they give them an extra $10,000 for last year’s budget, that they had in a deficit position, but they billed a new increase to include that $10,000. So, they elevate the budget by 20 percent or more. For what?

I will be very interested to hear the justification of that budget increase when we have the chairperson of the Human Rights Commission come to the Legislature again this session and justify to Members of the Legislature its expenditures. I will be very interested to hear what they have to say and I also would like to put the government on notice that, in the event that we are not here in the Legislature on March 31, when the Human Rights Commission’s annual report is due, are we going to have access to that report or are we going to have to wait until the Legislature is sitting again? It is information that we have requested in the past and have had to fight for in the past, to get it in a timely basis in order to be able to debate the budget of the Human Rights Commission.

My colleague has raised the same issue regarding the service contracts. In the event that we are not here and the government does not have the Legislature to table the document in, are we still going to be provided with that information at the end of March?

This government is getting a reputation for making decisions in isolation, for withholding certain bits of information from groups that they are meeting with, for example, the moratorium on the Tatshenshini. I understand the Minister met with organizations and just happened not to tell them that there was going to be representation made by this government to the federal government for that kind of moratorium. He has a convenient memory lapse, like the Minister of Justice, who is confused and cannot remember things.

The way this government has been making information available, my guess is that they will not be giving us that information until the House is sitting again. I suppose if we legislators and the media make enough fuss about it, we may be able to pressure them into giving it to us. By backing them into a corner we just may get that information out of them, but none of us will be holding our breath.

I get extremely concerned when the Minister of Education gets up and expounds at great length on how the morale in the Department of Education has somehow reached some new highs and that everybody there is happy, because he could not be more wrong than to stand up and say that in this Legislature. I heard him stand up, in the few times that we have been sitting, and say it no fewer than two or three times.

He just could not be more wrong. Not only is the morale low in his department, but the morale of the public service is very low in a lot of the other departments within this government.

The public servants are getting tired of being blamed for the incompetence, ineptitude, bad decisions and bad direction of the politicians sitting over there who are issuing those directives. I do not blame them. The Government Leader is the worst offender. He never hesitates to stand up and say that it is someone else’s fault.

Clear direction cannot even be given to the public service by these people as to whether they should or should not speak to the media. If they speak to the media, they are told not to. If the media phone and want an answer, the Minister says to get one of the officials to speak to them. You cannot have it both ways. There has to be some policy. There is no policy: one day it is one thing and another day it is something else.

There have been firings in this government. The Minister can stand up and use every little shifty term such as “transferred” or “relocated” he wants to. There have been people here who have been fired. There are individuals in the capacity of a deputy minister who go around swearing at public servants, yelling at them and screaming their heads off in departments. You do not treat people like that. Civilized people do not act that way. I know it is happening because people call me and tell me it is happening, and I can hear it in the hallways myself.

The morale within this government is not at new high levels. There is a lack of direction from the politicians, a lack of policy direction, a lack of desire by the politicians to accept responsibility for the bad decisions they make and there is an eagerness on the part of the politicians to blame the public servants for the mistakes and bad decisions they make. That is just not the way it works. Sooner or later you are going to have rebellious attitudes, and I think the Ministers have already seen some evidence that that is happening. The longer the Minister talks about how great the morale is and the more he refuses to see what is before his eyes, the worse it is going to get. That will be something that these people have brought on themselves. It will not be something left over from anyone else. It will be an action that is directly attributable to the way this government and the people in this front bench respond to the public service.

I was interested to hear the comments of the Minister of Health and Human Resources when it came to Sweden. The Leader of the Official Opposition had raised some comments about Sweden and the Minister got up and expounded on how great Sweden was and how everybody had everything there and nobody wanted for anything and how it was the perfect world. From anything I have read on Sweden, or any documentaries I have seen on educational television channels, that is not what is happening there. It is not utopia. The people are not happy. There is a lack of motivation and private business is not thriving.

The Government Leader just conveniently neglected to mention the income tax rate in Sweden, which is about 50 to72 percent. I am taking information right out of the government’s own documented books.

Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible)

Mrs. Firth: It is right out of your books. The Government Leader is smiling away. The income tax rate in Sweden is nowhere comparable to what it is here in Canada. I do not think Canadians want a utopia where their income tax rates are comparable to Sweden’s. It does not matter if it is two or five percent down from that now. If the Government Leader wants to go out and convince Yukoners that this is a good system and that we should have an income tax rate comparable with Sweden’s, he can do that and I wish him luck.

The Minister of Tourism and the Minister of Community and Transportation Services, in their wisdom of changing our licence plates and putting a moratorium on placer mining on the Tatshenshini River, in one week gave a very big message to the placer mining industry. Now, asking questions, we find there was no consultation, that the licence plates had to be changed anyways. I think you will find it hard to convince people out in the street that is a relevant argument. We find that “The Magic... The Mystery” is a big tourism slogan that is attracting people to the Yukon. In one week, these two Ministers and the Cabinet who, I am sure, made the decision - these two people did not make it by themselves - a whole group of them, the five of them, made the decision - just removed the gold panner and requested, unbeknownst to anyone in the mining community, a moratorium on placer mining.

I think that gives a very strong message to the mining community where this government sits when it comes to supporting that industry. The government can have all kinds of giveaway programs and grant programs. It is not going to compensate and buy people and make them happy and make them be quiet and compensate them, as this government thinks it will do. That is just not going to happen.

I am amazed, when I read the budget and see the growth in the management areas, all the assistant deputy ministers, the salaries they are going to be getting, and the direction this government is heading in creating this special class of privileged people.

Speaker: Order please. I would like to remind the Member she has three minutes to conclude.

Mrs. Firth: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope I will use every one of those three minutes.

I am sure that with the track record of this government it will not be very long before we see special friends in these special positions. That seems to be the way this government is heading.

There was representation made that there were competent women who could be put in some of these managerial positions. We have not seen that happen yet. I know there are competent women in this community who could take many of these positions I have talked about today, but I guess that does not seem to be the direction this government is going to move in.

You can make the figures look as fancy as you want. There are always going to be people who will find holes, and facts that do not add up, in the government’s budget. These people are not doing Yukoners any favours, creating huge operating and maintenance budgets that are rising so rapidly every year, and then reducing capital budgets, the budgets that people actually make a living from. They are not doing Yukoners a big favour.

I have appreciated this opportunity to stand and express some points of view on behalf of my constituents, and I would like to reassure the government that when it comes to department-by-department debate, we will be having a very thorough analysis of exactly where all the money is going and, particularly, where or if this government has any priorities.

Ms. Kassi: I will do my best in making my presentation today. I lost my voice over the very exciting and successful weekend we had.

I would like to congratulate the Minister of Finance and his departmental officials for doing a commendable job in negotiating this particular budget in the face of extensive cuts in the federal funding. I believe the people of the Yukon will agree.

I have always been committed to the concept of independence of communities in terms of how they spend money, where they put projects, and who they hire. I also support the concept of communities and government working together. These ideas are not mutually exclusive. This budget shows just how closely linked one is to the other.

Once again, this government has stated its commitment to settling land claims. This budget’s funding allocations for land claims ensure that base line information is available to all parties. The money for training boards and the wildlife trust fund are important for the aboriginal people of the Yukon. The increase in the fisheries budget and the wildlife enhancement fund, are important steps for the protection of traditional life styles.

The emphasis of this budget on social programs and the environment is significant in terms of the very survival of the Yukon Territory. The economy has not been abandoned. We cannot have sound economic development of any kind if we do not build, giving full consideration to the environment.

We heard just last week about the extent of family violence in the Yukon. There were no secrets revealed. There was nothing said that we all did not already know except that, perhaps, we were forced to face reality square in the face. We need to focus on family violence prevention programs and other programs like the building of a new and bigger detox centre that will help solve some of the problems of violence and chemical abuse in the communities.

In fact, the economy is stable. We must remain strongly committed to the principles of sustainable development. We must remain strong to the principle of consultation. This budget does just that. We consulted on the needs of Yukoners about child care, we listened, we responded and we are providing the financial support for the policies and programs necessary to meet these needs.

The $400,000 allocated to expand the Child Development Centre’s outreach program to rural communities makes accessible, affordable care a reality for more children throughout the territory.

There is $14.9 million earmarked for improvements to housing, a basic need for everyone, and one that is out of reach for too many without sound social housing policies.

In recognition of the need to balance the teaching and role model for aboriginal people in Yukon schools, the Native Teacher Training Program has an increased budget. Curriculum development will be another area of attention. There is another very positive move on the part of the government toward school-based management. School committees will have a greater involvement in what is done and what is not done in their schools, which means more local decision making.

Focussing on my community, for many years the people of Old Crow have asked for a clean-up of our community. Through the community development fund and by dedicated work by two people, Sybil Frei and Gladys Netro, they were able to develop a proposal for streetscaping. The local men and women and YTG foreman, Mr. Eddie Taylor, did a wonderful job of cleaning up the excess debris of old vehicles, cleaning up the lagoon, building drainage ditches by covering up the gravel and dirt throughout the village, and landscaping. All of this was under a very tight budget. This led to a tremendous change in the village. The community is much cleaner, and it has lifted our spirits in the community. We will be completing this project this summer.

The road to the mountain is almost to the traditional campfire place, a point of gathering where we share fresh meat, tea, share stories and a lot of laughter, where we go hunting on the mountain. Older people are going up there now. All of this leads to less expense all around and less dependence on oil and gas to travel up the river to hunt. Now everyone in the village is able to hunt on the mountain, pack their meat to the road and bring the meat home by vehicle. More people, in particular the very young and the very old, are enjoying going up there now.

We only have a few miles of construction to go. It is hoped that it will be completed this summer.

The past summer, fall and winter have not been good for my people, as far as the economy is concerned. Fur prices have dropped drastically, and our young people were beginning to leave our village to look for work. However, I am pleased to announce that more work will come beginning in the spring. We are assured that a new maintenance building for YTG will be constructed. We needed that building. The building we now have is very old, is falling apart, and is unsafe. I encourage the Minister of Community and Transportation Services to seriously look at contracting this building with the Vuntat Gwich’in Tribal Council, as we did with the three-bay garage, and which proved to be very successful. Using local hire, as Old Crow has the best carpenters, this maintenance garage and the new college will build up the community and the economy.

The new college will come this spring. The people of Old Crow will be happy to assist in designing this building. We have our own ideas about its development to encourage people to use the facilities and respect it as a house of learning. I can assure this government it will be well respected and used.

In the social area, we now have two trained lifeskills coaches, Alice Frost and Florence Netro. The tribal council is now seeking resources to hold another lifeskills seminar. These programs have proved very successful in the positive development of the community.

In the area of family violence, we have recently received some funding from Health and Human Resources for someone outside to come in and develop a proposal to assist us in developing a safe house for victims of abuse. We are seeking funds to renovate a building and for two people to run this facility. We will hold workshops in the areas of holistic approach and personal family and community development. We look for the support of Health and Human Resources with this development.

I am also pleased to hear the tribal justice initiatives will continue. I am happy to hear the Minister mentioned that these are one of her priorized areas of program development in the Yukon Territory. The aboriginal community will be pleased to hear that $1 million has been allocated for training of aboriginal people. We will need the training resources amongst our people for preparation of the implementation of First Nations self-government at the community level. We will be looking for training for our administrators in all levels: tribal justice, social development, environmental development, business development, mechanics, pilots, our own nurses, teachers and tourism. Old Crow will be certain to take advantage of this opportunity.

We have quite a few students attending the local college here in Whitehorse, as well as the high school. The students are much more determined to achieve their goals and objectives. I would like to say how pleased I am to see this, that the more educated people we have within our nation, the stronger we will become to face whatever our future will bring.

As I had stated earlier, the native teacher program has been a major positive move. This gives us the opportunity to have our own aboriginal teachers in our own schools. It is hoped that changes in the Education Act will implement many of our concerns about the education system. More power will be given to the local school committees, with guaranteed representation by aboriginal people. This shows great cooperation between this government and the indigenous community. We are grateful for that.

Recently, there were funds allocated to the local inmates society for construction of an after-care facility for themselves. As well, we are aware that the Whitehorse Correctional Centre is full of aboriginal people. Some are there for small and petty crimes continuously. Some are there for more serious crimes. However, most of these crimes are alcohol-related. These individuals realize their needs and require a place to go to build support amongst themselves and to use cultural means of healing. This move will show their determination to get out of the vicious cycle that they are in. I am pleased that they have the support of this government in the first phase of designing that facility. It is my hope that, upon the opening of this facility, we will still be by their side to assist them with the programs they will need to develop other alternatives for a better life.

The Yukon Conservation Strategy is in its development. We look forward to its implementation. I believe it will come out in the beginning of January. I stress that we make sure we have full and equal participation by the Yukon’s First Nations in its development and implementation process, that people realize its importance and that it will tie into the world conservation strategy.

The Trappers Enhancement Program will continue. This is a program where trappers needing skidoos, toboggans, or whatever they require to trap, buy them first and then are reimbursed later. However, recently the trappers association has requested that this policy be changed. I strongly urge that we look seriously at changing this policy to accommodate better trapping, as in most cases, trapping remains the only source of income for many in the Yukon and the furs sold contribute a lot to the economy and social environment.

My people have been paying special attention to the developments around the Northern Accord agreement. I commend this government’s firm stand on no developments on the North Slope. The government recognizes the Gwich’in as being the indigenous people of the area and that it is our traditional homeland; therefore, I encourage us to look at a firm agreement on those positions shared by many and that the interests and concerns of the Gwich’in be involved in achieving this agreement, collectively. We must assert our sovereignty over the northern Yukon.

In closing, on behalf of the Vuntat Gwich’in, I thank this government for its attention in our village to the areas I mentioned and I trust that we can look forward to an even brighter future. Mahsi-cho.

Hon. Ms. Joe: In speaking to the 1990-91 main estimates tabled, I would like to bring to the attention of the Members of the House the fiscal responsibility shown by this government. This is evidenced in the fact that there are no tax increases for the people of the Yukon and, secondly, that this is a balanced budget. This budget reflects the concerns of the people of the Yukon toward the environment. It reflects the concerns of the people of the Yukon toward more social programs that address the social problems of our communities, and, lastly, it shows a clear commitment to fiscal restraint. This is all rolled into response to maintaining our economy.

There are a number of areas in this budget that I would like to address. One of them is the government’s commitment to land claims negotiations. This government has responded to the needs of the Yukon First Nations, as well as to all residents of the Yukon in providing for the needs of all concerned. We all want to see a land claims settlement finalized and ratified and this budget is showing a progressive and proactive response to the needs of the communities and even the federal government.

It is encouraging to me to see the efforts of this government in providing more services and diverting more resources to the communities than ever before. We all need to listen to the issues and concerns of our local governments, and I assure this House that this government supports that process.

Since my constituency is located in Whitehorse, the residents of my constituency will be reassured by the substantial increase in their block funding. This increase will certainly serve to assist the city in further developing some of our own objectives. This is just another indicator that we, as a government, are responding to our local government and community concerns.

My constituents will be very pleased to see the creation of a Capital City Commission and to see that this government will also provide the necessary resources to further develop the ideas of the residents of the City of Whitehorse.

This budget reflects this government’s commitment to building the economy and well-being of the communities, and it shows. It is interesting to note that nearly 60 percent of the total O&M budget is being distributed outside of Whitehorse and 66 percent of the total capital budget is being distributed in the communities. It is interesting that while the Opposition has been concerned about this government’s mismanagement of its finances and criticize our focus on social programs, this government has been able to strengthen the communities by not only encouraging local development, but also by providing the resources for the developmental requirements. This development of the communities is not only just in an economic sense, but more importantly at this time, in a social sense as well. The communities have been gravely concerned about their social problems and this government has responded in a responsible manner. This budget is providing an emphasis on solving some of our serious social problems, to improve the health and well-being in our communities.

The continuation of the community development fund will most certainly provide much needed resources for the communities to realize some of their initiatives and planned projects. The continuation of the funds that are available for day care will also be of great benefit to the communities.

This government made a commitment to quality day care, and not just for Whitehorse but for all the residents of the Yukon. This budget has reflected those commitments and there will be funds available of some $400,000 to ensure that the care of our children is a priority with this government.

While we have responded to the many concerns that rural communities expressed in the area of child care, we also need to respond to the desperate pleas in the communities for solutions to the problem of alcohol abuse. This government has budgeted $200,000 for a new detoxification facility to respond to these pleas. This may not solve our alcohol problems, but it will be a step toward realizing that we need to provide all the assistance we can to this very serious problem.

I am also greatly encouraged that, while we have certainly decreased our capital expenditures in response to the more pressing needs of our communities, we still have a very busy scheduled construction year ahead of us, particularly here in Whitehorse. There are a number of projects from outside our government that will provide many needed jobs and services. The construction of the new federal building and the construction of an additional floor on the Royal Bank Building are good indicators that we can look forward to a very productive year.

The construction of the arts centre and the archives at the Yukon College will also provide for activity that will increase economic activity within this community. Therefore, while it may seem that our budget has focused away from heavy capital expenditures, it is evident the Yukon has begun to carry itself economically, and continues to grow in a healthy and productive manner.

As the Minister responsible for the Department of Justice, I would like to reiterate that the mandate of this department is to ensure that citizens of the Yukon can exercise their legal rights and responsibilities in order to assist in the economic and social development of the Yukon and to protect society’s values.

The current trend in the delivery of Yukon Justice services has been to place an emphasis on providing better services to the communities, victims of crime and crime prevention, as well as tribal justice. This shift in emphasis is reflective of this government’s focus toward social programs.

The department has attempted, through a budget that has remained relatively constant over the last fiscal year, to provide services to the public and to the communities that will allow the justice system to be more accessible and responsive to the needs of the public, while providing for only a five percent general economic increase.

Many of the department’s operations are controlled by the statutory programs that are required to be delivered. For example, extra services have been required for the reciprocal enforcement of maintenance orders. Requirements for devolution programs has required many additional resources, as well as the overall increases in the cost policing, together with an increase of our percentage share of those costs, have placed additional financial demands on the department.

Flexibility and creativity to carry out the department’s mandate has been required during this period of restraint on human and financial resources. However, consideration and concern for the needs of each Yukon resident involved in the justice system will continue to be the priority for the Department of Justice and our budget reflects these considerations.

The Department of Justice has some additions to its person years, which are primarily due to the devolution of the mine safety program, the establishment of a bilingual legislative drafting unit, and the addition of a psychiatric nurse at the Whitehorse Correctional Centre. Both the mine safety program and the French language program are fully recoverable from the federal government. It is the intent of the department to continue to provide the highest quality public service at the least possible cost. This is reflected by the marginal increase in the department’s budget.

The prime focus for the Public Service Commission’s activities for this coming year is human resource planning. This activity will focus on a strategic approach to meeting the government’s overall human resource objectives. Some preliminary work in human resource planning has been done in past years, and it is recognized that the time has come to make a concerted effort to respond positively and decisively to the demands of local hire, affirmative action, turnover, career planning and staff development.

New initiatives in the training and development area will also contribute to the achievement of the human resource planning objectives. The training of employees to acquire new skills that will enhance their performance ability, as well as career development, will be a priority for the Public Service Commission. During this past year, there have been 1,167 employees trained in a number of areas. It is hoped we will surpass this number substantially in the coming years. We will be introducing new courses to assist clerical and secretarial staff in developing administrative skills and knowledge to help them progress to more senior administrative positions.

A training program will also be developed for some senior managers based on input to be obtained through a survey of managers. These two initiatives are being added to the existing training program.

The Positive Employment Program has three staff positions and nine training positions, all term, and a native training corps designed to encourage and facilitate the training of native people. They have had a number of people successfully complete the training who are currently employed by this government.

Plans for the introduction of the first stage of the Career Development Program for people with disabilities have been completed. This is a pilot program that will provide supportive training for people with disabilities.

The 1990-91 budget reflects an increase of four percent to the O&M estimates for the Women’s Directorate. The continuation of family violence second year initiatives will take up the major part of the directorate program development public information budget. As in the past, the directorate will continue its commitment to do outreach work through the “Help” line. These programs are in response to the many requests for help from the communities regarding the issue of family violence.

Resources are also committed to coordinating national speakers on women’s issues. In the past, the directorate has brought in such speakers as Nicole Morgan, Dr. Margrit Eichler and Monica Townsend, and all have contributed positively to an increased awareness by the government and the general public about women’s issues.

The Women’s Directorate continued to sponsor all their regular programs as well as taking on new ideas with their very small budget. I personally feel that this particular branch of our government should be applauded for the amount of work they accomplish with their very small budget.

The efforts of this government to put forward a realistic budget that provides for the restraints that we need in order to bring forward a balanced budget are shown in the capital and operations and maintenance budget for 1990-91. This is a good budget, and in this age of spiralling deficits, it should be inspiring to the citizens of the Yukon to know that their finances are managed in such a responsible manner.

We have a budget that will undoubtedly contribute to the quality of life in the Yukon and will also establish priorities for the Yukon that are supportive of wishes of the communities and which I am sure all Members of this House will wish to support.

In a speech by the Member for Riverdale South, she indicated to this House that the former Minister of Justice had refused to agree to a transfer. I would like to let this House know that, if at that time there had been an agreement to transfer health services, there would have been many implications. I hasten to say that, if that had occurred, there would be much more criticism than she has reflected in this House today. There were many problems that could have become a part of a transfer at that time. The Member knows what those problems might have been. I think the manner in which the health transfer is proceeding is very responsible. When that is done, I am sure that people involved will support the move as it is made at that time.

The Member also indicated to this House that there were many programs implemented during my time as the Minister of Health and Human Resources. Citizens of the Yukon have told me they were pleased to see many of these programs; many people benefited from them. I was very pleased that during my time as the Minister responsible that I was able to help. The health care of Yukoners is very important to me and is a priority of this government.

I remember sitting on the opposite side of the House when the very same Member, the Member for Riverdale South, stood in this House and talked about an increase in their travel expenses. That included the purchase of wine, combs and aspirin. Tell me - what is more important to the people of the Yukon? The well-being and health of Yukoners or wine, combs and aspirin for travel?

She also indicated there is a morale problem within this government and that all the government employees are displeased with what is happening. She has indicated in this House that many employees have come to her and told her stories about screaming, hollering and shouting - displeasure with Ministers and other Members of this government. I could tell you the horror stories that were told to us when we were the Opposition. There will always be a problem. People will not always be happy with what is happening, but this government has attempted to improve many things that were happening under the former Tory government.

She has also talked about the problem of the Human Rights Commission. It has always been a well-known fact in the Yukon that the Members on the other side of the House have been opposed to human rights. It was very, very noticeable when they were part of a petition that was circulated in the Yukon that opposed many things to be included in the Human Rights Act. The things being told across Canada about the opposition to this act were quite scary to other Canadians. She mentioned that $70,000 was a commitment that the former Minister of Justice made to the Human Rights Commission. He might have done that, but if you are going to do a program well you have to spend money on it. We all know they are opposed to human rights in the Yukon. It is a well-known fact that the Tory Opposition is opposed to human rights. They do not have to repeat it in this House.

There has been an increase in the Human Rights Commission budget. I do not think that the money that has been allocated to them is enough. I commend the Minister of Finance for this budget that has been tabled in this House. It is a good budget, it is a balanced budget, and it is a budget we can be proud of.

Mr. Phillips: I would like to comment on what I believe to be some of the few positive initiatives in the budget before us.

I am extremely pleased to see the allocation of funds for the building of an extended care facility. This is long overdue. We should have already had the facility. If the government had been doing its job we would have had the facility open today.

In the past few years the excellent staff at Macaulay Lodge have bent over backwards in providing care for seniors at the lodge. The current facilities at Macaulay Lodge do not provide for the type of care that is needed. I have watched the lodge’s function rapidly change over the past several years from a place where the majority of seniors who lived there needed just a small amount of care to a place that today is full of seniors who should be in a properly-equipped, extended-care facility. I know the Premier has made only a few trips to Macaulay Lodge and has not been there recently. I suggest he go to see what the lodge has turned into, and see the seniors who are suffering a great deal because they do not have a proper facility. The government has really dragged its feet on this one, and it has been at the expense of many of the seniors in this territory. Because of this problem, we have had to deny access to many other seniors.

The government hired a part-time home care worker. I encouraged them several times to make it a full time job because that occupational therapist would have been someone who could have helped some of these seniors who cannot get into Macaulay because it is full, and helped them to stay in their home a little longer. I hope the government has seen the light of day and will consider increasing this position to a full time position. It is the type of preventive medicine that can be done to keep people in their homes, with a sense of self worth and dignity.

It is going to take time to construct this new facility. I look forward to it going ahead this year and not just being announced three or four more times. I am pleased that the Premier announced they will provide funds to improve equipment and the quality of service at Macaulay Lodge. That is a good move in the interim. I would encourage him in the strongest terms to get on with the job that the former Minister should have done four years ago and get this badly-needed facility built.

Another area I am encouraged about is the moves made by the government to develop a mini department of the environment. I can only hope that the government will now do a little more than just talk about environmental issues.

I mention a couple of areas I feel the government has made some progress in. As I explained I am not totally satisfied with their efforts. They talked at great length about environmental issues and actions. What has happened is that they have actually taken some action that has been contrary to what they said in the House. We passed a motion about establishing storage for PCBs away from populated areas, and the government twisted the words of the motion around and secretly built a storage shed for PCBs in the Marwell Area of Whitehorse, right in the riding of one of their Members. That is shameful and contrary to the wishes of the Association of Yukon Communities, contrary to the wishes of the City of Whitehorse, and contrary to the wishes of every Member of this Legislature who stood, spoke and voted for that motion, that PCBs and dangerous chemicals not be stored in populated areas.

It is a devious way to carry on government. You are not just talking about something that the government is doing that will not affect a lot of people. This could have a drastic effect on a lot of people. That is way the motion was brought before this Legislature. That is why we felt a need to debate that motion. The government has a terrible habit of voting on and passing motions in this Legislature and then just turning around and doing what they want. I think that is unfortunate.

I would like to talk about the budget in general and the dangerous trend that we appear to be on. Over the past four years or so, the Government of the Yukon has benefited greatly from Ottawa’s generosity. Have we spent this windfall effectively? Have we got value for our dollar? The answer is no. In fact, in some cases, we have thrown good money after bad. All Members would agree that we did not get value for our money in the $8 million to $10 million spent on Hyland Forest Products. It could have been done better. I defy the Government Leader to tell Yukoners that that was money well spent. He could have put four times as many people to work throughout the territory, if he had managed that operation sensibly in the first place. I think the Government Leader knows that.

We have a strong concern when the O&M budget rises from $148 million in 1984-85 to $248 million today. That is $100 million; $100 million dollars in four to five years. At the same time, the population of the Yukon has risen by three or four thousand people, to a population of around 30,000 people in the territory. Two hundred and forty-eight million dollars is an awful lot of money for 30,000 people. That is just the O&M side of the budget.

The Government Leader keeps telling us that the Yukon has the fastest growing economy in Canada, yet our unemployment rate is five percent higher than the national average. It now sits at around 12 percent. Those figures are shameful. Every year the Government Leader has told us, as Yukoners, that the unemployment is a major issue that his government wants to tackle. We consistently come in higher than any other province in Canada. He is only paying lip service to it. How can the Government Leader say that we have the strongest and best economy in Canada and then tell Yukoners that we also have the highest unemployment? It does not make sense. There is a good reason why our unemployment rate has not come down, at least to the national average. It is because the government is more concerned with the creation of short-term jobs, rather than putting into place the infrastructure that will provide for long-term employment. This is certainly not the time to switch from an economic agenda to a social one. That will only put more people on the unemployment lines in the future.

I would like to look at what is left of this NDP government’s economic agenda. I had an opportunity in October to attend a conference at Yukon College as part of the Yukon 2000 process. The conference was called “The Environment and The Economy”. It leaned heavily on the environmental side. I must admit that the concern over the environment is a high priority with the average Canadian, but, just because of this, we cannot and should not ignore the economic side. If we do, we do so at our own peril. One just has to think back to 1984 and 1985 and remember how tough in can be in Yukon when we have very little economic activity. We can have economic development and it can be environmentally compatible. I am convinced of that. It appears that economic development has slipped down and possibly even off the list of priorities with this NDP government. I listened closely at that conference to the speech made by the Minister of Economic Development when he told the 70 or so delegates about the Yukon’s economic state and its possible future. I was disappointed, to say the least. Afterwards, I spoke with many of the delegates who told me that they expected a much clearer snapshot of where we were economically and what we could expect in the future.

Currently, we have three or four potential mines that are seriously looking at starting production. The Minister elected to tell us that the short-term future did not look good for the mining community. One could sum up the Minister’s remarks as a poor and slim overview of the Yukon’s economic position.

I can only hope that the lack of interest the Minister displayed at that meeting does not reflect the priority he puts on his portfolio.

The next speaker at the conference was the Minister of the Renewable Resources. He discussed the Yukon conservation strategy. The Minister, as well, did not tell the delegates anything new. It was just another re-announcement of something we have already been doing for quite some time.

Announcing initiatives five or six times before they do anything about them seems to be a trend with all Ministers across the floor. I am pleased now to see a little movement resulting from the conservation strategy with the research the Yukon Conservation Society is doing in initiating the first steps in a recycling program. I would like to see a larger commitment from this government in this area. I know this is going to cost money, and recycling is not economically feasible in the Yukon right now with our small population, but I believe we can do more. It will cause some short-term pain, but I am convinced it will provide some very long-term gain.

The government, through the Yukon Conservation Society, has initiated a small return on aluminum cans. I believe currently the government is offering one cent per can. That, in my view, is not enough incentive to get the cans picked up. If you walk around this building in the spring time, as many of the Members have, you will find a lot of the trash along the river is aluminum cans. We have to look at the seriousness of the problem. It was like the stickers we used to put on our bottles. We felt it was necessary to clean up the environment, so we put a 25 cent sticker on the bottles we sold at the liquor store and, at the same time, ignored all the other bottles that did not have stickers and were lying out there. I think that if we feel that we are really serious about cleaning up the environment, we should show how serious we are by making this type of incentive worthwhile for small groups to take advantage of and get out there and pick up all the aluminum cans that are littered around.

I would like to go back for a moment to the conference. There are a couple of observations I would like to make about the participants at the conference. It was obvious to me that the conference was to deal with the economy and the environment. There was a glaring shortage of resource users at that conference. I do not believe there was anyone from the forest sector, other than government employees. No one I could find at that conference represented the agricultural sector. Only one representative from the mining sector was there. No one was there from the placer mining sector. There was only a hard rock miner who was, I believe, an individual involved in the committee the government struck.

I was involved personally in the mining workshop that took place at the conference, and it was obvious that eight out of 10 individuals were not involved in, and had very little knowledge of, the mining industry. There were two individuals involved in the mining seminar. One of them was a consultant in the mining industry and the other was a gentleman who was the president, I believe, of the Keno Hill Community Club. That mine, of course, is no longer operational. I had a very clear feeling from the two gentleman involved in the mining industry that they felt they were under attack at that mining workshop.

In the forestry workshop, there was no one representing the industry. It is beyond me how a group could discuss this sector and come up with some conclusions without input from the resource users.

Another area I thought should have been discussed at that conference - it was only briefly mentioned in the mining sector but not mentioned in the final analysis of the conference - is power availability in the territory. We are talking about the economic development of the future. I think everyone knows in this House that we are almost, right now, at the hydro power producing capacity at the Whitehorse dam and the Otter Falls project. Sometime in the very near future, we are going to have to seriously look at other hydro potentials in the territory. The government should be allocating funds in this budget for that very area. It is not something we can just start to look at as soon as these new mines announce they want to go onstream. It is something we have to start to get into place now as it takes four to seven years to develop a hydro project in the territory, if that is the route we want to go.

There are environmental hearings and impact hearings you have to go through to make sure that the project is feasible and environmentally safe. The government should be taking steps now to look at this area. It has not done that. The idea of the conference was a good one but more effort should be made to involve the resource community and not just government departments. The conservation strategy component will simply not work unless the government tries to make stronger efforts to involve the mining community.

Before I leave the subject of the conference I would like mention briefly my concerns over the new Yukon Council on the Economy and the Environment. I believe the government has made two errors in striking this board. First of all, it has politicized the committee by appointing the former executive assistant and NDP campaign manager as the chair of the board. Mr. Staples does have some experience in the conservation field but he spoke out strongly several times against any kind of development. How strong will Mr. Staples’ recommendations be when he is presenting them to his colleague - and former boss - Mr. Penikett? Political patronage is alive and well in the Yukon.

The second problem I see with the new council is the lack of representation from the agricultural community. They were left out of the previous economic council but I find it even harder to believe that they are not represented on the Yukon Council of the Economy and the Environment. I would like to ask the Minister of Renewable Resources if he could think of another area, another sector, that will have as much of an effect on the environment as our agriculture will? I would hope that this government would reconsider and appoint a member of the agricultural community to that committee.

As you can see, I did not leave the conference totally impressed, or even impressed a little. I hope that this government’s announced shift from the economy, as a priority, is not as it appeared at the conference.

I would like to spend a few moments and discuss initiatives that are taking place in the area of tourism. I am pleased to see that more funding will be available for the marketing of tourism in 1990. I have always believed that this is an area that has never received the attention that it should get. On the other hand, I see some shortcomings in the direction that this government is leading tourism. Tourism has been described as one of the fastest growing businesses in the world, and a business with one of the highest potentials in the world. People all over the world are finding that they have more and more leisure time and they are using that time to travel and see other areas of the country. It is an extremely competitive business. Yukon has to act now or we are going to be left behind.

Marketing, of course, is a very important part of developing a healthy tourism industry. The other side of the coin is that you have to have something to market. This is an area in which I believe we are falling down, at a time when we are entering into the 1990s, the era of the gold rush. In the area in which we are best known all over the world, internationally, for our history, the Klondike gold rush, this government has decided that it is time to switch gears and change to a colorful southern licence plate, with no consultation with the tourism industry, I might add. This government has seen fit to give us a new, expensive, five-colour licence plate and then has the nerve to increase our fees for that licence plate by 44 percent, to pay for this great dream.

Just in this House today, the Minister of Tourism told us that the Minister of Highways is going to re-introduce the gold panner licence plate in five years time. Are we going to get another 44 percent increase in our licence fees at that time, to reflect the costs of producing another new licence plate for the territory? I would suggest to the Minister that we are now entering the era of the 1990s, reflecting the period in time that the Yukon is best known for, and that we should not be changing horses at this particular time. This is the time when we should emphasizing the Yukon and the Klondike.

The report that I mentioned earlier today in Question Period, and I will make it available to the Minister of Tourism, if he has not had an opportunity to read it, makes the point that most Americans know that Canada has wide expanses and beautiful outdoors; they know that we have that. What the report says - and this is a report commissioned by the Canadian government, talking about American tourists coming to Canada - is that American tourists want to come and see something other than what they expect to see. They want to come to an attraction. They want to come to see a part of history. We want to come to see the Klondike, the gold rush. That is what people come here to look at, and I see this government, all of a sudden, changing it focus. I would suggest to the government that if it plans to change its focus, that it is possibly 10 years too early, that what we should be doing now is focusing on the gold rush, with some emphasis on the beauty and the majesty of the country, but we should be focusing on the gold rush for the next 10 years, and then after the year 2000 we can start looking at other ways to market the territory.

The fact of the matter is that if you extensively market the gold rush over the next ten years, you are going to create a lot of interest in the gold rush and in the Yukon. People are going to come here. Then you will have the latitude to expand to other areas. Do not switch horses when we are reaching a point when we should be heralding our history and telling the people in the world what we are all about and why we are here. We should not be running in the other direction, like this government seems to be doing.

I know where they get the magic and the mystery. The mystery is where this ridiculous idea of changing the plate came from, and the magic is the 44 percent increase that Yukoners will face when they go to pay for their new licence plate.

There are a couple of other initiatives that the government has taken with respect to tourism that I would like to comment on briefly. The Minister of Tourism tabled a report in this session on Kluane Lake long after the Government of Canada announced what it was going to do in the area. This government first took the stand that some public access should be allowed for Kluane by voting for a motion that we had in this House. Then, through the summer months, the Minister had a change of heart. Now, there is no access to Kluane, no public access. Somewhere in a back room, they struck a deal to remove part of Kathleen Lake from Kluane National Park, not for a wilderness area, but to build a resort hotel. I know that the Minister spoke of his fear of hotels being built in the park, and not wanting hotels built there. Yet, at the land claims table they negotiated away a jewel - the jewel being Kathleen Lake. They took it out of the park knowing full well that the proposal for that area was to build a resort hotel. This is inconsistent what was said about access into Kluane.

I do not understand why the government took that position. You cannot have it both ways. If the government was concerned about protecting the integrity of Kluane, then it should have stuck by its guns and protected the integrity of Kluane. It did not do that. There is one rule for one and another rule for another. That is unfortunate and unfair.

I would like to talk about the waterfront development. I have been a little disappointed because the waterfront development is an area where the Government of Yukon is directly involved. It sits on a three-member board dealing with what is going to happen with the Whitehorse waterfront. The government has had the opportunity over the past several years, through the Yukon 2000 process and through the 20/20 report, to see what Yukoners want and to listen to the views of Yukoners to see what they need in that area. They seem to have taken the Kluane Park approach again, where there is no comment from the government. They have been silent. I was surprised because two Members from across the floor whose ridings the waterfront development is in - the Members for Whitehorse South Centre and Whitehorse North Centre - have been just as silent as the government on what takes place at that waterfront. Both of those Members ran on the campaign that waterfront development would take place and that they would be involved in it.

There has been a public meeting. There has been a opportunity to make presentations. There was a Chamber of Commerce meeting a month ago to discuss the waterfront development. Neither one of the two Members who ran with it as a campaign promise showed up nor made a presentation at any of those meetings. Not one of them. It makes you wonder if they were just telling the people of Whitehorse North Centre and Whitehorse South Centre what they thought or were they serious about waterfront development?

I am serious about waterfront development and we on this side are serious about it. We realize that Whitehorse and the Yukon must have more attractions to get tourists to come to the Yukon and stay here and have something to see while they are here. The board issued views, and one of the members of the board was a government representative, stating that what the government wanted to see was a park from the government building up to the White Pass depot. I should not say the White Pass depot, because the government representative concurred with the other Members of the board and said that the White Pass depot should not be there any more. They concurred that there should be a park up to where the White Pass depot used to be.

I would like to ask the government where their imagination is. Do they not realize the potential of that waterfront development, and what we could do in the Yukon? On one hand, they are doing away with the licence plates, the gold panner, the theme “Klondike” and, on the other hand, they are part of a group that proposes a waterfront development that looks like the waterfront in Nanaimo, Vancouver or some other city in Canada. When a consultant was asked, where is the heritage value in your proposal, he said, “We have a little promenade here that walks all along the front. We will cut a little section of it out, and we could look down on the old pilings that are there. When we look down on the old pilings, we could put a little sign up that says, these are the old pilings the dock used to sit on, that the riverboats used to pull up to...” Now these old pilings are now just sawed off chunks of wood, “...and this would be our heritage value of the waterfront.” The Government of the Yukon agreed with that proposal. They said, “No, we are going to go one further. We are going to put up a bust on that dock of Sam McGee, maybe even two of them. That will represent the heritage and history of the waterfront in the Yukon.”

Whitehorse would not be here without that waterfront. Whitehorse would not be here without the riverboats that pulled into those docks. Whitehorse would not be here if the train did not stop down here in front of the depot. The government was silent on all that. It is time they stood up and took a position. They have heard what the people of the Yukon have said about that development. They want some historical value incorporated into the development. They should tell the people of the Yukon that they will do their best to make sure the White Pass Depot does not move; they will do their best to ensure the railroad tracks stay downtown and that, possibly one day in the future, we may have a small shuttle train, like they have in Skagway, to run us back and forth. Those are attractions. People stop at the S.S. Klondike because it is significant. They will not stop at the Whitehorse waterfront development if they go by there and all they see is a waterfront development that looks like the one in their own home town.

Government has to get off its backside and take a position on this development. At the meeting I attended a couple of weeks ago, we heard that not much has happened. The government is a member of that committee, and the government should encourage that waterfront committee to incorporate the views expressed by the people who made representations to that committee. I think the government has an obligation to do that, and it should not wait two years to do it. The year 1992 is fast approaching; 1996 and 1998 are fast approaching. If we are going to have something in place for people to see and things for people to do, we have to move now. We cannot treat it like the extended care facility and take five, six or seven years to do anything.

At the convention I attended this weekend, I had an opportunity to talk to some of the representatives who were in from Kluane. At that meeting, a motion was passed that dealt with the condition of the Alaska Highway. The Alaska Highway between Haines Junction and Beaver Creek is in deplorable condition. Something has to be done. Again, it is getting so bad that one of the main tour companies - I believe it was Princess Tours - has announced that, next year, it is not going to run its buses into that area. Kluane is already an area that is hurting dramatically. Next year, Princess Tours is not going to run its buses in there. Do you know why? There are two reasons. Number one is the road condition, and number two is the Kluane National Park access. Do you know what they said? They said there was nothing to see. They just drove along the road. Now they are going to put them on a ferry, and they are going to take these same people, put them on a ferry, and take them across to Anchorage. They are going to miss us completely. Thousands of tourists are going to miss us completely, and that is not the first group that is considering making that kind of move.

The side opposite, and especially the Minister of Tourism, had better wake up. Klondike is not the only area of the territory that has tourism potential.

The year 1992 is the celebration of the Alaska Highway Bicentennial. There was also a concern that the Government of Yukon is dragging its feet on the celebrations. I have had discussions with Mr. Pond and feel we have an excellent individual coordinating those activities. There has to be a strong commitment from this government and a will to negotiate with the federal government the appropriate funding for 1992. The Alaskans are putting some things in place now and we have to match them. Again, I stress there is a lot to be done before 1992. We can bring all the people of the world up the Alaska Highway in 1992 but if they wreck their vehicles getting here, it will do a lot more damage than good. This House must stress, again, to Ottawa that a priority must be given to the Alaska Highway, in particular the section near Beaver Creek, and secondly the northern B.C. section that is in poor shape.

There are a few sections in need of upgrading between Watson Lake and Whitehorse as well. The Government of Canada has to realize that the Alaska Highway is a continuation of the Trans Canada Highway. It is the highway that links northern Canada with southern Canada. It was an international road of great significance during the latter war years. A commitment should be made now by Ottawa. We should be standing up and shouting as loud as we can to ensure that Ottawa comes through with the necessary funds to upgrade that road. I will support the Minister in any efforts he makes in that regard.

I would like to make a couple of comments on some initiatives that the government has taken recently. One of them is the change in the fishing licence structure for non-residents. I was pleased to see the Minister, although very reluctantly, admit that he had made a mistake last year. He stood in the House and adamantly declared that it was the only way and that we did not know what we were talking about, and that this was the only way to do it. One-day licences were a thing of the past and a three-day licence was the only way to go. He then stood up and said that the “trial period” for the three-day licence did not work out. It was hard to control myself when the Minister expressed those feelings. The Minister could have been much more honest with the Yukon public if he had stood up and said, “You know what you guys, you are right. The one-day licence is the route to go.” The fishing stores told me when the non-residents found out the price of our licences they just said, “Let’s go to Alaska; we will not bother fishing here.”

When the Minister refused to listen to this side he cost us a few tourism dollars because these people continued on through. I hope he listens to the ideas from this side in the future and treats them in the manner they are given. That one was given in all seriousness. He is not the only one with good ideas.

I would like to commend the government on the Alaska fishing licence agreement. That was a motion we put forth in this House. I am a little concerned that nothing will be done on the Alaskan side until sometime in the first part of next year. I encourage the Minister to pursue this as soon as possible and send a message to the Alaskan Minister of Fisheries.

Speaker:  I would remind the Member that he has three minutes to conclude.

Mr. Phillips:  I have broken all my records. I did not realize I was that long winded.

I am pleased about the Capital City Commission. I am displeased with this government that prides itself on consultation. The Tatshenshini placer mining freeze was a good example that my colleague from Riverdale South gave. What happened there was absolutely deplorable. It sent a terrible message to the min-ing industry. The question was not the river, but in the manner the go