Whitehorse, Yukon

Speaker: I will now call the House to order.

We will proceed at this time with prayers.

Prayers

DAILY ROUTINE

Speaker: We will proceed at this time with the Order Paper.

Tributes.

Introduction of visitors.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Hon. Mrs. Edelman: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to take this opportunity to introduce my family. There is the former Member for Riverside, my father Jack Cable, my nieces Evelyn and Grace Hull, my sister Jennifer Hull, and my brother Dan Cable.

Applause

Speaker: Are there any returns or documents for tabling?

TABLING RETURNS AND DOCUMENTS

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, I have a legislative return for tabling.

Speaker: Are there any reports of committees?

Are there any petitions?

Are there any notices of motion?

NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr. McLarnon: Mr. Speaker, I give notice of the following motion:

THAT it is the opinion of this House that it is the government's responsibility to provide leadership in the area of resource management, and

THAT this House urges the Yukon government to

(2) work with other levels of government to develop fuel reduction areas around Yukon communities to protect Yukoners from wildfire,

(3) recognize and expand the agricultural potential of the Yukon, and

Mr. Speaker, I give notice of the following motion:

THAT it is the opinion of this House that the four levels of government in the Yukon must work together to provide the services upon which all Yukoners depend, and that intergovernmental cooperation on service delivery will enhance the efficient use of taxpayers' dollars; and

THAT this House urges the Yukon government to take a leadership role in facilitating this process by

(1) instituting an annual intergovernmental consultation process on all issues related to First Nations self-government;

2) working with all levels of government to improve our economy and maximize the use of transfer payments from the federal government; and

3) holding an annual meeting that brings together representatives from all levels of government.

Mr. Speaker, I give notice of the following motion:

THAT this House recognizes that

(1) the Yukon Liberal caucus has been working with the Boswell Resident Group since November 1, 1999 to facilitate the information flow concerning the major electrical power surge on October 31, 1999; and

(2) the NDP government did nothing to help the Boswell Resident Group; and

THAT this House urges the Yukon government to continue working with the Boswell Resident Group toward the resolution of this matter.

Mr. Keenan: I give notice of the following motion:

THAT it is the opinion of this House that

(1) in remarks to the Whitehorse Chamber of Commerce in January, the Premier reconfirmed the Yukon Liberal Party's commitment to protect electricity consumers by keeping the price of power down and building for the future; and

(2) the rising cost of imported fossil fuel, including diesel, has serious cost implications for Yukon residents, businesses and the electrical utilities; and

(3) the Premier has acknowledged that the territorial government's finances are in a healthy condition, including an accumulated surplus of $56.2 million as of March 31, 2000; and

THAT this House urges the Yukon Liberal government to table a detailed plan outlining how it intends to do what it said it would do to protect Yukon consumers from rising energy costs.

Mr. Speaker I give notice of the following motion:

THAT it is the opinion of this House that

(1) while they were in opposition, the Yukon Liberals took a strong position advocating a comprehensive review of the Workers Compensation Act; and

(2) the policy position of the Yukon Liberals was that such a review should be conducted by officials appointed by and reporting directly to the minister; and

THAT it is the opinion of this House that the Yukon Liberal government should make good on its commitment by presenting a detailed plan outlining when, how and by whom such a comprehensive review of the act will be conducted.

Mr. Fentie: I give notice of the following motion:

THAT it is the opinion of this House that

(1) the Yukon Liberal Party, through the Premier and the Member for Riverdale South, have frequently expressed highly critical views of the community development fund, referring to it in such terms as a "slush fund," and a "ministerial candy store"; and

(2) all Yukon communities, both urban and rural, have embraced the community development fund as an important vehicle for creating jobs and meeting community infrastructure priorities; and

(3) during the recent election campaign, the Yukon Liberal Party made a commitment to evaluate economic development programs to gauge which ones are producing results; and

(4) the failure of the Yukon Liberal government to take action on this commitment is creating needless apprehension and uncertainty about community-sponsored projects; and

(5) the Premier has acknowledged that the government's finances are in a healthy condition, including an accumulated surplus of at least $56.2 million as of March 31, 2000; and

THAT this House urges the Yukon Liberal government to do what it would said it would do, and outline immediately when and how it intends to evaluate the community development fund, so that Yukon communities can have some certainty about local projects they consider important to them.

Mr. Speaker, I give notice of the following motion:

THAT it is the opinion of the House that

(1) in her address to the Whitehorse Chamber of Commerce in January, the Premier made an unequivocal commitment that a Yukon Liberal government would conduct "regular, solid analysis" to determine the effectiveness of the key economic initiatives of the previous government, such as the trade and investment fund and the trade and diversification strategy; and

(2) during the recent election campaign, the Yukon Liberal Party promised both to support the trade and export initiatives of local businesses and to "evaluate export initiatives using benchmarks such as the number of companies exporting and the dollar value of exports"; and

(3) the Yukon Liberal government's failure to act on these commitments is creating uncertainty in the business community about this government's real commitment to economic diversification; and

THAT this House urges the Yukon Liberal government to do what it said it would do, and immediately outline the specific steps it would take to support the trade and export initiatives of local businesses, as well as how and when it will conduct the promised cost-benefit analysis of the trade and investment fund and the trade and investment strategy.

Thank you.

Mr. Jenkins: Mr. Speaker, I give notice of the following motion:

THAT it is the opinion of this House that Canada's three northern territories should be treated equally by the Government of Canada in relation to the recognition of their respective offshore boundaries; and

THAT this House urges the Government of Yukon to ensure that Yukon's northern boundary description in the draft Yukon Act (1999) should be made more consistent with those of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut by amending Schedule 1 of that draft legislation as follows:

(1) Change "on the north by that part of the Arctic Ocean called Beaufort Sea" to "on the north by the northern limit of Canada in that part of the Arctic Ocean called Beaufort Sea.";

(2) Replace paragraph 2 of the definition of "Yukon" in section 2 of the draft Yukon Act 1999 with the following paragraph:

(3) Elsewhere in the draft Yukon Act 1999, including the heading to Schedule 2, change "adjoining area"(or "Adjoining Area") to "designated area" (or "Designated Area") and include a consequential amendment to the effect that any reference to "adjoining" (or "Adjoining") in the Oil and Gas Accord should be interpreted in light of this change.

Speaker: Are there any statements by ministers?

Some Hon. Member: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Point of order

Speaker: The leader of the third party, on a point of order.

motion of urgent and pressing necessity

Mr. Jenkins: Mr. Speaker, I'm rising pursuant to Standing Order No. 28. I'm not raising a point of order, but it is the practice of this House that a member may gain the floor for the purpose of Standing Order No. 28 in this way.

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No. 28, I request the unanimous consent of the House to proceed at this time with a motion, due to its urgent and pressing necessity.

Mr. Speaker, the motion for which I request unanimous consent reads as follows:

THAT it is the opinion of this House that the forestry industry in the southeast Yukon has reached a critical stage because lumber mill operators in that region have been unable to obtain secure, long-term access to timber and one of the major mill operations in Watson Lake is scheduled to close on Friday, June 30, 2000, with a subsequent loss of many much-needed jobs in that community; and

THAT this House urges the Government of Yukon to immediately contact the Government of Canada to ensure lumber mill operators in Watson Lake are able to obtain long-term access to timber through timber harvesting agreements by Friday, June 30, 2000 in order to preserve jobs in the forestry industry in Watson Lake.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: Standing Order No. 28 states:

(1) A motion may, in case of urgent and pressing necessity previously explained by the mover, be made by unanimous consent of the Assembly without notice having been given.

(2) Unanimous consent for a motion under this standing order shall be requested during the Daily Routine in the period following Ministerial Statements and prior to the beginning of the oral Question Period.

Does the leader of the third party have the unanimous consent of the House to proceed with the motion, which he has read in the House?

Some Hon. Members: (Inaudible)

Unanimous consent

Speaker: Unanimous consent has not been granted.

This then brings us to Question Period.

QUESTION PERIOD

Mr. Fentie: Mr. Speaker, the Premier has told the Yukon public that the buck stops at her desk. When I asked what she would do to address the crisis in our forest industry last week, she passed the buck to the Minister of Renewable Resources.

My question to the Premier today is this: what steps has she taken since last week to try to save the 125 jobs that the South Yukon Forest Corporation provides to the community of Watson Lake?

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for the question and the representation on behalf of his constituents. As the member well knows, there has been, over the past two years, support provided by the Yukon government to the South Yukon Forest Corporation. That support, I am certain, I can re-outline for the member opposite.

The issue that the member was raising last week - and one of the key issues for the South Yukon Forest Corporation - is the matter of timber supply, which the Minister of Renewable Resources is making best efforts on. That response was given to the member opposite last week.

In terms of what the Minister of Economic Development intends to do, should the Minister of Economic Development be asked, and department officials be asked, to provide assistance, we will do as we would do with any Yukon business. We will provide due diligence in determining what area and how we might give assistance.

Mr. Fentie: Mr. Speaker, this situation is critical. We now know that the mill will be closing its doors Friday, June 30. The workers have been notified. The investors have been notified. This is no time for double-talk; this is time for action.

Mr. Speaker, will the Premier do her job immediately, and address this crisis to ensure continued operations of the Yukon's largest private sector employer? Will she do so today?

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, it's also no time for fear-mongering. My understanding is that South Yukon Forest Corporation had a planned two-week hiatus and that they have chosen, at this point, to advance the date, and the two-week hiatus will begin on Friday. So, that was scheduled. That's the first point.

Secondly, one of the issues is timber supply, and I have already indicated that the Minister of Renewable Resources is making best efforts on that issue.

Thirdly, should - and I emphasize "should" - South Yukon Forest Corporation approach the Department of Economic Development, best efforts and due diligence will be undertaken.

Certainly, this side is making best efforts and is in fact doing our job on this issue for the people associated with South Yukon Forest Corporation and all the people of the Yukon.

Mr. Fentie: Mr. Speaker, it's true it's a scheduled shutdown now because they're going to run out of timber. There's no more log inventory. I warned the Premier about this back in May in a letter to the Premier. The Premier has a job to do here and that's to ensure that the people of Watson Lake and 125 families can continue to earn a living.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier is responsible for economic development in this territory. It's her job to build the economy, not stand idly by while Yukon's main economic engine shuts down due to lack of timber.

Hon. Ms. Duncan: I can assure the member, for the third time, as the Minister of Renewable Resources assured the member last week, no one on this side of the House is standing idly by. There are three points. First of all, yes, the member has agreed that there was a scheduled shutdown.

Secondly, the Minister of Renewable Resources is actively working on the timber supply issue with the federal officials.

Thirdly, should South Yukon Forest Corporation approach the Department of Economic Development, we will do due diligence on this. As the member opposite well knows, for the past two years the Yukon government has provided support to South Yukon Forest Corporation - training funds, facilitating supply discussions, as I already stated, a $205,000 loan for engineering work, and investigating other funding sources. That work has been done. We will continue to work with South Yukon Forest Corporation. We will do due diligence, as we will do for all Yukoners.

Question re: Forest industry, support for South Yukon Forest Corporation

Mr. Fentie: The Premier isn't getting the message here. The shutdown is not a scheduled shutdown because they had pre-planned it. It's a shutdown because they're going to run out of log inventory and there's no reason for them to have run out of log inventory.

Mr. Speaker, this will send the Yukon's forest industry back into total dependence of raw-log export; we are losing our main economic engine in the manufacturing sector.

Mr. Speaker, there are 125 jobs at stake. The economic future of the community of Watson Lake is in jeopardy. Once again, Mr. Speaker, will the Premier stop stalling and take immediate action?

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Again, in response the Member for Watson Lake, the Yukon government acknowledges and has spoken about South Yukon Forest Corporation. The previous government has supported South Yukon Forest Corporation. This government is dealing with three issues: first of all, a planned hiatus; secondly, timber supply, which the member already spoken about; and, thirdly, should the company approach the Department of Economic Development for additional funding programs or some form of assistance, due diligence will be conducted. I would emphasize that this government has already provided training funds, a $205,000 loan, and is investigating other funding sources for the mill. We're well aware of the situation in Watson Lake, and we are making best efforts.

Mr. Fentie: Best efforts by the Liberal government are simply not good enough. This shutdown is due to lack of log inventory. There is no reason that this shutdown should have to happen. If the Liberal government across the floor had been doing their job upon taking office, they would have addressed the log inventory question.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier shows here today that she doesn't care about the 125 families soon to be out of work. She doesn't care about the community of Watson Lake and its economic future. Mr. Speaker, does she care about the 60 Yukon investors who have invested their hard-earned dollars into this sawmill? What is the minister prepared to do, right now, to assure these Yukon investors that she is capable of showing some economic leadership?

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, right now, as the member says, the Minister of Renewable Resources is working on the THA - the lumber supply analysis - with the federal government. Right now, as the member demanded, the Minister of Renewable Resources is working on this issue. I have stated that, and the minister responsible for Renewable Resources has stated this.

The member knows full well that forestry is still a federal responsibility, and we're working on that too, right now, as the member states it. There are three issues: there is a planned hiatus; there is a timber supply analysis issue, which the member has quite rightly pointed out; and, thirdly, should there be a request for additional assistance, due diligence will be conducted.

The member knows very well that this side - all members of this House - care about Yukoners and we care about Yukon investors. That's why we are working on these issues.

Mr. Fentie: Well, Mr. Speaker, there's such a thing as standing on a board and getting a hernia trying to lift it. The Liberal government says they're working on this issue. What has happened? Upon taking office, we now see one of our main economic engines, the forest industry, shutting its doors on Friday, June 30. This is not some pre-planned shutdown. They are shutting down because they are out of log inventory. This situation should have been addressed immediately by the Liberal government, upon taking office.

We're talking about 125 jobs here. We're talking about 60 Yukoners who have invested their money in this operation, believing in the forest sector and the forest industry. We're also talking about small operators. Last year, the South Yukon Forest Corporation purchased approximately 30 cutting permits from smaller operators. It is their economic lifeline.

Will the Premier tell this House what three specific steps she is going to undertake here today to solve this crisis?

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, as I have already stated, this government has taken a number of steps. First and foremost, although the long-term THA process is not going to deal with the short-term wood supply problem, the member opposite knows full well that this is a federal government led process and that we have, since well before the election was called, been asking that Yukon be present at the table in discussing this. We had taken those steps before the election was even called and we have been working on them since, asking that we be present at the table on this issue. That's point number one.

Point number two, there has been support for South Yukon Forest Corporation. Should there be a request, we will do due diligence. As I have said, there have been training trust funds allocated to South Yukon. There has been a $205,000 loan. There has been the assistance of Economic Development officials in investigating other funding sources. Now the member opposite is trying to suggest that we have been standing idly by, when that is not the case. The South Yukon Forest Corporation had a two-week planned hiatus. That's what they're taking. This government has responded, and we will continue to respond.

Question re: Forest industry, support for South Yukon Forest Corporation

Mr. Harding: I'm amazed at the answers I'm hearing today from the Premier of this territory. The Premier who said the buck stopped with her. The Premier that said she was going to show leadership. What does she say today when it is pointed out that we are facing the shutdown of the largest private sector employer in this territory? We're facing 60 Yukon investors losing their investment, a return to raw-log exports. She says, "If they phone me, I might look into it." She was told that this was coming back in May by the Member for Watson Lake and she has done nothing to help these 125 people who work at that mill. Why would the Premier show so little regard for the people of Watson Lake and the Yukon economy?

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, we're showing every regard for the people of Watson Lake and all of the people of the Yukon. We have, before the election was called, responded as we should. We have lobbied long and hard on behalf of Yukon's forest industry and Yukon's forest resources. Since taking office, no, the Premier is not standing idly by, nor is any member of Cabinet nor any member of the back bench. We have been working diligently on behalf of the people of the Yukon and we will continue to do so, including the people of Watson Lake, people employed by South Yukon Forest Corporation, and others.

Mr. Harding: Mr. Speaker, in March and April the employment numbers are way up from last year, before the Liberal government came to power. They campaigned on turning the economy around but now we see that their approach to the economy is actually going to cause this territory to lose the largest private sector employer we have.

Mr. Speaker, the Yukon, with metal prices down, had one, lone boom town and that's Watson Lake and the Liberals are certainly on their way to fixing that.

I'd like to ask the Premier if she will show leadership this week - today - and get in touch with South Yukon Forest Corporation, the Minister of Northern Affairs, Bob Nault, and resolve this situation this week and avert this shutdown and the loss of these critical jobs.

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, this is a planned shutdown and the member full well knows it. The member also knows that forestry is still, at this point, a federal responsibility. There are two issues: there's the immediate, short-term wood supply and there's the long-term THA process, and the Yukon Liberal Party and we, as a government, have been actively lobbying the federal government on this issue. My Minister of Renewable Resources has been working on this diligently since the election. Prior to that, we, as a party, were working on this.

Thirdly, the issue of support for South Yukon Forest Corporation, the member knows full well, as Minister of Economic Development and as a former minister of this government, what support has been provided. And in order to provide support, there should, or ought to be, a request and, as sound fiscal managers, we ought to do due diligence. That's exactly what we intend to do. The member knows that.

Mr. Harding: Well, Mr. Speaker, there's one difference between the NDP government and the Liberal government. She has listed off what the NDP government did to keep those people working and keep that mill bringing value-added production to this territory, so that we weren't back to raw-log exports. What this Premier keeps doing is listing off what the NDP government did. When is she going to stand on her own two feet?

There are investors out there in this mill, from the oil and gas industry, in Calgary, who have written us letters expressing concern. They are watching this Liberal government very closely, who campaigned on their special relationship with Ottawa Liberals, ensuring that the Yukon economy would continue to grow, not retrench. Mr. Speaker, what is happening is quite the opposite.

I want to ask the Premier again: will she phone, today, right after Question Period, Bob Nault, and South Yukon Forest Corporation and put together something that will ensure that the mill averts this shutdown - which includes the loss of 125 jobs and those of the small operators and all those Yukoners out there who are depending on it in the whole community - so that they can resolve this situation?

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, there is a whole community of Yukoners who are indeed listening to this debate and the member opposite. There are a number of issues and I have listed them. For the member, again, this is a planned shutdown - a planned, two-week shutdown. "Hiatus" is the term that was used.

Secondly, the issue is short-term wood supply and the issue is the long-term THA. The department and the Minister of Renewable Resources have been working with the federal government on this. The federal government still has responsibility. My understanding is that they are getting close.

Thirdly, should there be a request for financial assistance, once we get these other issues resolved, this government will do due diligence. That's what we will do -

Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible)

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, we are working on the issues associated with the South Yukon Forest Corporation, as we are working on these issues on behalf of all Yukoners.

Question re: Natural gas pipeline, Alaska Highway route

Mr. Jenkins: I have a question today for the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier was recently in Calgary, lobbying oil and gas representatives to fix the Alaska Highway natural gas pipeline route to transport Alaskan natural gas to the Southern 48, rather than pick the alternate route across the northern Yukon and possibly in the offshore and down the Mackenzie Valley.

This alternate route would effectively put the Yukon out of the oil and gas business for decades to come and would leave the Yukon in the economic doldrums in terms of oil and gas development, such as we are today.

Can the Premier explain, therefore, why, in the Liberal-NDP devolution proposal, she is not pushing for federal recognition of Yukon's northern boundary in its offshore waters, which are currently under N.W.T. jurisdiction?

The information that the Premier tabled on June 21 doesn't even address this fundamentally important issue. Doesn't the Premier recognize the importance of the Yukon's northern boundary in its offshore waters and doesn't she believe such a boundary would give the Yukon more of a lever in lobbying against this offshore pipeline route?

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, the Yukon Liberal government believes in a number of things: first and foremost, the Alaska Highway route as the best option for transporting Alaskan natural gas south.

The member is asking about the northern boundary and wants to enter into a constitutional debate with me as to jurisdiction. I have provided information to the member opposite and would also, publicly, again for the member, offer him a briefing with those who are actively working now on the Yukon Act and the Yukon Act proposal and the devolution discussions, as we have offered in the House before.

Certainly, officials are more than prepared to discuss this issue with the member opposite in terms of his concerns with regard to the northern boundary.

Mr. Jenkins: A briefing on an issue, where the government of the day is very, very wishy washy, doesn't provide any information or any certainty in that area.

Mr. Speaker, a few minutes ago I read a motion into the record, which would amend the draft Yukon Act (1999) to recognize Yukon's offshore northern boundary. That was a very constructive proposal, and I would like the Premier to explain why the federal Liberal government, in the creation of Nunavut, recognized its boundary in the offshore but will not recognize Yukon's northern boundary. Why is the Yukon being treated as a second-class territory by her federal Liberal friends in Ottawa?

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, the member's question is why the federal government recognized Nunavut's offshore boundary. The member's premise of his question is wrong. That is not the case, and the member has read into the record today a motion, which he believes to be constructive. Certainly, officials will look at the drafting of the Yukon Act and give fair and thorough consideration to the member opposite's proposals.

The member opposite's view of the northern boundary and the view of other people who spend their lifetimes looking at these constitutional sorts of issues disagree. Our role is to demonstrate that leadership that the member opposite is seeking and to look at all the arguments and make our presentation with respect to the Yukon Act. The Yukon Act is still in the drafting stages. It's still being worked on, as are the devolution discussions. We are working on them. We will examine the member opposite's perspective, it will be taken into account, and we will act accordingly.

Mr. Jenkins: Well, Mr. Speaker, what we have are two sets of rules in the north. The federal Liberals have a set of rules for the Northwest Territories and for Nunavut, and then the Yukon falls under another set of rules, and they're not the same. All we're asking is that all three northern territories of Canada be treated in the same manner.

Now, the Liberal Premier is saying that she's providing leadership. Has the Premier ever apprised her federal Liberal friends that the Yukon's offshore northern boundary in the Beaufort Sea should be recognized? Has she ever bothered to ask, and, if so, would she please table the correspondence in this House? If not, it's high time to pick up that red phone and see if that special relationship with Ottawa works. I suggest she not phone Bob, but Jean this time.

Hon. Ms. Duncan: Well, let's see. The member fancies himself a comedian, a constitutional lawyer, a leader and a whole lot of things this afternoon. First and foremost, the rules with respect -

Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible)

Hon. Ms. Duncan: The attempt to the far left is objecting to the responses.

First and foremost, the rules as they apply to Nunavut and the Yukon are not different. Secondly, the northern boundary issue is an issue that has been examined in the past in the discussions around the Yukon Act, and I'll be happy to provide that information to the member opposite. The Yukon Act is a work in progress; negotiations are ongoing with federal officials, at this time, on the drafting of the Yukon Act, which includes discussions around the northern boundary. I will provide the member opposite with the background information on this once again.

Question re: Workers' Compensation Act, review of

Mr. Keenan: Mr. Speaker, when they were in opposition, the Liberals frequently took the position that the Workers' Compensation Act was in need of a major overhaul. My question for the minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Health and Safety Board: will the minister tell the House if it is still the position of the Yukon Liberal government, and, if not, what has changed?

Hon. Mr. Roberts: This being the first question on the Workers' Compensation Act, I appreciate the fact that we are moving ahead with discussion. We're moving ahead with meeting with stakeholders; we're moving ahead with meeting with the board. We're basically looking at our options, and we are going to continue to do this in order to ensure that the future of the Workers' Compensation Board is seen as that positive light that it should be for all workers in the Yukon.

Mr. Keenan: Well, Mr. Speaker, the former Member for Riverside was very outspoken on this subject. He even tabled a motion in this House saying that there should be a comprehensive review of this act. I don't think that said that we should be looking at options; it said we should be looking at a comprehensive review.

Can the minister tell us now if they're going to get through the options paper, when they might decide on a comprehensive review, when it will take place, how long will it take, and what do they expect it to accomplish?

Hon. Mr. Roberts: Mr. Speaker, thanks again for the question. Yes, we are moving ahead, as the member opposite has suggested. We are going to look at doing a review. It is in place and moving in that direction. We are not moving backwards. We do want to make sure that all the players are involved in that process. As they well know, this takes time. I'm hoping that, over the next week or two, we will be able to make an announcement to that effect.

Mr. Keenan: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the member for the partial answer, seeing as we're so polite here this afternoon.

The former member was very clear in the suggestion that the comprehensive review should be conducted by officials appointed by, and reporting directly to, the minister. What criteria will the minister be using to select these officials and what direction does the minister expect to give them?

Hon. Mr. Roberts: We are basically moving ahead on this issue, because of - I guess you would call it - the past record of Workers' Compensation, in the sense that they need to have a very open forum. At the moment, we are in discussions with a very reputable organization that is going to be part of this process. I can't at this point tell you what that is, because we haven't received firm confirmation on it, but we are definitely going to move ahead with a review. We are hoping that, over the next couple of months, this can be undertaken. Again, that report, frame of reference - all those things - will basically be in line with the issues of trying to resolve many of the concerns and questions that we've had in the past with Workers' Compensation.

It's very timely. We think it's very important. We, as a new government, definitely want to see this happen. As a matter of fact, we even want to go further. If we find that these issues don't respond and we find that the report does not give us the full information, we are willing, as a government, to even look further beyond this.

Question re: Old Crow community bus

Ms. Netro: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister responsible for Community and Transportation Services about the purchase of a multi-purpose community bus for Old Crow. That was requested by my constituents at the pre-budget meeting with the former Government Leader. Can the minister tell me if the purchase of a community bus, for Old Crow, will in fact take place?

Hon. Ms. Buckway: Mr. Speaker, no, I can't advise the member on that at this time.

Ms. Netro: The Premier said that all of the expenditures in the NDP budget, which she tabled, would go ahead. At the transportation services budget briefing, officials expressed strong reservations and said that several issues needed to be analyzed before the proposed purchase of a community bus for Old Crow. Will the minister commit to this expenditure and tell me when the community bus for Old Crow will be delivered?

Hon. Ms. Buckway: The officials are correct. There are some issues that need to be analyzed before we can decide whether to go ahead with this expenditure.

Ms. Netro: Her officials have several concerns about the purchase of a bus for my community. I can table for the minister an excerpt from the information given to the critics at the meeting. Has the minister, as the elected official, given clear direction to her department that this expenditure for an Old Crow community bus should proceed?

Hon. Ms. Buckway: Mr. Speaker, as I said, there are several issues surrounding the purchase of this bus that need to be looked at before we can go ahead.

Speaker: The time for Question Period has now elapsed. We'll now proceed to Orders of the Day.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Mr. Kent: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole.

Speaker: It has been moved by the acting government House leader that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole.

Motion agreed to

COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE

Chair: I now call Committee of the Whole to order. Would members wish to take a brief recess?

Some Hon. Members: Agreed.

Chair: We'll take a 15-minute recess.

Recess

Chair: I will now Committee of the Whole to order.

Bill No. 2 - First Appropriation Act, 2000-01 - continued

Chair: We will continue with general debate.

Hon. Mrs. Edelman: Mr. Chair, I would like to begin today by speaking to a number of issues that were raised during the general debate on the Women's Directorate's budget last Thursday afternoon.

The member opposite from Vuntut Gwitchin asked me about some of the priorities of this government, with respect to women's issues.

As I mentioned then, our caucus will discuss this subject during our planning sessions later on this summer. I would like to say, however, that some of my goals for Yukon women include safety, health, prosperity, equity and, of course, respect.

Of particular concern to the member opposite from Vuntut Gwitchin was violence prevention. Violence against women is a serious pervasive problem in the Yukon and an obstacle to equality for women across our country. I would like to reassure the member opposite that I believe that every Yukon woman has the right to live in a safe community, free from violence and from the threat of violence.

For many years, the Women's Directorate has been responsible for the government's comprehensive, multi-year and multimedia public education and public awareness campaigns on the prevention of violence against women. The directorate fulfils this commitment through public awareness campaigns in a variety of media, including print, radio, video, theatre and school-based activities.

The directorate has produced many publications in this area, including a family violence directory of services and resources that has been updated and reprinted every two years for the past 10 years. This valuable community resource is distributed throughout the Yukon. I mentioned a number of other publications and initiatives in the area of violence prevention during my opening remarks on the Women's Directorate, so I will not list those again, but I would like to reassure the member opposite that the directorate's important work in the area of violence prevention will continue.

To further clarify a number of points raised by the Member for Klondike, I would like to speak briefly about the role of the Women's Directorate. First and foremost, the Women's Directorate is a free-standing department of the Yukon government. It is not a lobby group, nor a non-government women's organization. It does work closely, however, with women's organizations in the communities, and it also provides contribution funding for both the Women's Centre and the Yukon Status of Women Council. It also funds a voice for Yukon women through the Yukon Advisory Council on Women's Issues.

In its role as a free-standing department of government, it has the mandate of supporting the Yukon government's commitment to the economic, legal and social equality of women in order to ensure gender considerations are an integral part of the government policy, legislation and program development. With the purpose of advancing women's economic and legal equality, it does the following: it acts as a central policy advisory to government on women's equality issues through gender-based analysis and through its participation on Deputy Minister Review Committee, the Assistant Deputy Minister Task Force, Policy Review Committee and the Communications Review Committee, to name a few. It consults with Yukon women and collaborates with women's organizations to promote the equality of women. It works closely with women's organizations on community events, such as Women Abuse Prevention Month, Sexual Assault Prevention Month, December 6^th and various other community-based, ad hoc committees throughout the year. For example, the Women's Directorate played a very significant role in the planning and co-ordination of the Circumpolar Women's Conference last year.

It consults and has an ongoing dialogue with women's organizations on a variety of issues, including gender equity in public schools, midwifery, women's programming for addictions, and it also works with other government departments to implement effective programs on the prevention of violence against women and children.

To further clarify for the Member for Klondike, it cannot and does not draft joint papers in collaboration with women's organizations for the purpose of lobbying other government departments. This is not one of its roles. It also has a very small budget and does not fund ongoing programming.

As I mentioned earlier, funding for transition homes in the Yukon, for example, is the responsibility of Health and Social Services. Legal aid is funded by the Department of Justice.

In terms of the work the directorate does collaboratively with the Departments of Justice, Health and Social Services, Education, Community and Transportation Services as well as Yukon Housing Corporation and the Yukon Liquor Corporation, directorate staff participate on a number of interdepartmental and inter-agency committees. Here are a few examples: directorate staff actively participate in the development and implementation of the Family Violence Prevention Act. They have provided input into the government plans for restorative justice and they have assisted with amendments to the Maintenance and Custody Orders Enforcement Act. They have collaborated with other government departments on interdepartmental working groups to develop anti-poverty measures and strategies for youth and for seniors. They are currently involved with intergovernmental work with their colleagues across the country in developing a new identities program for women fleeing abusive relationships.

The directorate chairs the Gender Equity Committee, which involves both government and non-government representatives. This committee works to implement the gender equity policy in public schools, to ensure that the learning environment is safe, equitable and provides equal access and opportunities for both girls and boys.

The directorate has worked closely with the Department of Education on a number of issues, including promoting the participation of women in the apprenticeship and trades fields. They co-sponsored a Northern Research Institute report last year, "Yukon Women in Apprenticeship and Trades", which received national acclaim. This report has been followed up by encouraging young women to establish a women-in-trades-and-technology chapter here in Yukon, which is the only jurisdiction that previously did not have a chapter of this association.

In the area of health, directorate staff has participated on a number of community-based midwifery planning groups. They have been involved with alcohol and drug services and women's organizations in promoting women's programming for addictions treatment. They are also participating in discussions around reproductive health.

I am hopeful that by giving some detail around the work that the Women's Directorate carries out it will clarify the role of this department to the member opposite - the Member for Klondike. With reference to the many questions asked by the Member for Klondike on the issue of legal aid, I will again reiterate that the Women's Directorate is not the lead on this issue. They have certainly been involved in discussions with women's organizations and with Justice on this issue, and will continue to be involved throughout the review that is currently underway.

The Department of Justice has undertaken this review of legal aid at this time because legal aid needs of single mothers and families are of concern to our government.

Our main priority for legal aid is to ensure that a long-term solution is in place that addresses the key issues facing this service and ensures it will meet the needs of all Yukon people. We do not want, nor do we intend, to jump into a hasty, reactive solution to this issue that may create more problems at a later date. We have been charged with the responsibility of providing good government, and we will do that through a thoughtful review and careful analysis of this important issue.

The Department of Justice is working with and supports the board of the Legal Services Society in developing a comprehensive approach to the service and financial demands of legal aid in the Yukon. The legal aid operational review that is currently underway will be addressing how best to provide the services to Yukon people, and in particular to single mothers and their families.

Mr. Jenkins: Well, I'd like to thank the minister for taking so much time to run over the mandate of the Yukon Women's Directorate. That's an understanding that I had before I became the critic of that portfolio, and I'd like to thank her for reading into the record the many facets that the Women's Directorate deals with.

But rather than just run around the whole exercise and all of the areas that the Women's Directorate deals with, the minister fails to address the one main issue and the single issue that is causing the greatest deal of concern within that whole area of the NGOs and the Women's Directorate - and that issue is the shortfalls in the legal aid system.

Now, I reviewed Hansard from last Thursday during Committee of the Whole, and the minister really took issue with my comments in relation to the shortcoming in the legal aid system and its impact on many women today.

That impact is a reality of our life, and that impact is what has to be addressed. Now, what I heard from the minister today, Mr. Chair, is, "Well, it's not our department. We're going to study it, and this is being studied over in Justice, and we're going to pass the buck over there." It looks like the usual Liberal response; we run around the whole circle and don't really analyze the problem and fix the problem. In opposition, this Liberal minister was extremely vocal as to where the shortcomings were with women's issues today, and the shortcomings are traceable right to shortfalls in the legal aid system. That's primarily where we have to focus.

Now, what I wanted to see is that we should try to come up with a made-in-Yukon solution and ask the minister if she would give consideration to coming up with a paper outlining the number of women who are seeking legal aid and who are not being helped as a consequence of the shortfall in funding in our legal aid system here in the Yukon. That would probably address a majority of the concerns that are coming through from the NGOs and that the Women's Directorate hears about these days, Mr. Chair.

I'm not asking the Women's Directorate to become the lead agency. I'm just asking them to be the major mover and shaker to do something. Don't just sit there, run around, study and analyze and pass the buck. I was trying to get through to the minister that the Women's Directorate should, in fact, play a very large role in addressing and resolving this particular issue. Many of the directorate's clientele are the same ones who are having to deal first-hand with the problems associated with legal aid.

So, we can pass the buck as much as we want, Mr. Chair, but until we target what the problem is and address that problem, even though it might be at arm's length from the Women's Directorate, we're not really going to move ahead. The layer and layer and layer of other officials between us and the problem is not going to resolve the problem. It is just going to distance the government from the problem. Perhaps that is what they are hoping to accomplish - distance themselves from the problem and not address it head-on.

Now, all I'm asking of the minister is to play a key role, see if we can resolve this issue, and the issue is the shortfall in funding in the legal aid system. Now, I don't know how the minister wants to slice it or cut it or dice it or whatever she wants to do with it but, at the end of the day, that is the issue before us. Would the minister undertake that kind of a role within the Women's Directorate? I'm interested in the answer, Mr. Chair, because I'm sure we're going to run all around the circle again, but not target the problem.

Hon. Mrs. Edelman: Mr. Chair, it's very interesting, the Member for Klondike's perception of what happened last Thursday. Clearly, that member stood on the floor of this Legislature and said that the Women's Directorate should take the lead in this issue - the Women's Directorate was responsible for this issue. That's what the Member for Klondike said. The Member for Klondike also said that the Women's Directorate should take the lead and that they should write a paper - a paper that would lobby the other departments, and everything should wait until that paper was complete, and that paper should go to the Minister of Justice. Everything should wait for the paper that went to the Minister of Justice, including the review of the legal aid system. Well, the legal aid system has problems, and that was something that we were very aware of in opposition and it's something that we're still aware of, and that's why we're doing the review.

If the Women's Directorate did the paper, then we would have to wait on that process, and that process looks like it's now going to be finalized by the middle of July. That means that the Minister of Justice will have a review completed and she will be looking at the options available to fix parts of legal aid. All of it can't be fixed. We're going to do our best. The member opposite thinks that - he did say - the Women's Directorate should take the lead on legal aid. That's exactly what he said. We have it in Hansard. That is not the role of the Women's Directorate. I've spent a great deal of time telling the Member for Klondike that that is not the role of the Women's Directorate.

Obviously, the Women's Directorate has serious concerns about this issue and has advised and worked with the Department of Justice, as well as other departments, on this very important issue. The Women's Directorate is very, very aware of the problems for women in this territory - the economic problems, violence. All of those issues are important to the Women's Directorate, and that's why we work at what we do, such as maintenance enforcement. The list goes on and on and on.

The Member for Klondike said that the Women's Directorate should take the lead, that they should somehow come up with a paper to lobby the Department of Justice to fix legal aid. That's what the Member for Klondike said. That's what is in Hansard. We are saying that we are not going to wait for a paper to be produced by the Women's Directorate, which is clearly inappropriate - it is clearly inappropriate, especially because the Women's Directorate has already been working on this issue - and that we should wait until this paper goes to Justice, and that somehow or another that will fix the problems with legal aid. The Minister of Justice knows that she's going to be getting a review on her desk by the middle of July. She will be working very, very hard to fix legal aid.

I don't want to wait. I don't know why the Member for Klondike wants to wait.

Mr. Jenkins: Well, I will take the minister to Hansard, page 361. What I said was: "Now, if the Women's Directorate is going to be the lead agency or one of the lead agencies" - what I was advocating was that all of the various women's organizations come together, and that we address the issue. The Women's Directorate could be the lead or one of the leads. It is clearly stated in the Blues, Mr. Chair.

Now, that's one of the areas that has to be addressed - the shortfalls and the shortcomings in the legal aid system. What this minister is doing, Mr. Chair, is passing the buck to her colleague, the Minister of Justice, under which the Women's Directorate was formed.

So, let's move on. If the minister's not prepared to do anything in this area, so be it, but the system could be repaired and could be improved upon if this minister does her job, works with the NGOs, gets the information to the Minister of Justice and convinces the Minister of Justice to put more money into the legal aid system. It's a pretty simple exercise. And, in opposition, the member who is currently the minister responsible for this area, Mr. Chair, was very, very supportive of more funding for the legal aid system. How times change, once you go from opposition into government. How things change.

So, I guess we have to wait until the Minister of Justice looks favourably upon this issue. I see us moving ahead if the two ministers would get together and resolve the issue, and the issue is more money for the legal aid system. Can the minister undertake to do that?

Now, I'm sure we're going to hear a whole bunch of diatribe that won't mean anything, but the bottom line is that, until there's more money put into the legal aid system to address the shortcomings, we're going to still continue to have major, major problems. A lot of those problems can be addressed and can be improved by more money in legal aid.

Hon. Mrs. Edelman: Mr. Chair, it's always a question of perception. The Member for Klondike says that whatever I say is going to be diatribe and it won't mean anything. On the other hand, he asks that this side of the Legislature take a position. We have told the Member for Klondike a number of times - a number of times - that the Women's Directorate does not take the lead on this issue. We have provided leadership in this issue by getting information to the Department of Justice, which is the responsible department.

This review is very important. That's why this government undertook that review, and the previous government did not. This is very, very important to our government. That's why the Minister of Justice is taking a very thoughtful approach with this review and quickly dealing with some of the issues around legal aid.

Mr. Chair, clearly, the Member for Klondike doesn't listen when I say what the role of the Women's Directorate is. Clearly, the Member for Klondike doesn't listen when we say how important this review of legal aid is to our government. Clearly, the member opposite may be wasting his time in this Legislature because he doesn't listen to the answers that are given to him. If the Member for Klondike has further questions on the issue of legal aid, I would suggest that he perhaps direct those questions to the minister responsible, and that's the Minister of Justice. If the Member for Klondike has any new questions, I would be happy to entertain them at this time.

Mr. Jenkins: How can I propose any new questions when the minister can't answer the basic questions that are going to repair the system? We're just going around the periphery of the circle and it seems to be further and further remote from the centre. In opposition we had a member who had all of the solutions. There was no review that was necessary; it was just, "Put more money into the legal aid system, and why isn't the Minister of Justice doing it right away?" That was her call. She went on and on and on at great lengths. Why isn't it being done? There are tremendous shortcomings in the legal aid system, and it's impacting on a tremendous number of women around the Yukon, and rightly so. Mr. Chair, I agreed with this member when she was on opposition, but now that she is in charge of that area, how do we best accomplish that in a very expedient and rapid manner?

In opposition, it was immediate - just put more money into it. We can come up with $250,000 right out of the blue for incentives for the mining community - extra incentives, above and beyond what's already there, another $250,000. Now, what can we do for legal aid?

If you look at all the areas and all the campaign promises of the Liberals, Mr. Chair, I thought it would have been a very, very wise exercise if they'd have prioritized where they were going to put their money, rather than just looking for photo opportunities, ribbon-cutting ceremonies and cake-eating situations. You know that really does nothing to repair a system that has got some major flaws in it. And it's not that there isn't enough money there. There is a surplus that has been clearly identified and earmarked on March 31, 2000, of some $50-odd million.

Is that what this minister is saying, Mr. Chair? She's going to leave everything in the domain of the Minister of Justice in order to see something happen? Is that what this minister is saying, that she's failing in her responsibility, she's abandoning women and she's going to entrust everything to the Minister of Justice?

It's a sad state for women in the Yukon when we have to rely on the Minister of Justice to fix a problem that the minister responsible for the Women's Directorate could lobby for and have done immediately, if not sooner, Mr. Chair.

So, I want to know why the situation isn't being addressed immediately, Mr. Chair. Why aren't there some more funds being put into legal aid to repair these shortcomings, to assist women in need at this juncture?

In opposition, it was one story, and it could be fixed and it could be done immediately. Now that this minister is responsible for this area, it's under review. I can see the headlines in the Whitehorse Star tomorrow, "Government under review. Nothing is going to happen in the Yukon." This must be a Liberal exercise in creating the best welfare state in North America. Is that where we're headed? Is that what the Liberal game plan is, to create the best welfare area in North America?

Hon. Mrs. Edelman: Mr. Chair, perhaps that's what the Member for Klondike wants. He's against incentives for the mining community. Perhaps that's what he'd like.

And, to be absolutely clear, yes, I am leaving everything in the domain of the Minister of Justice because she is the minister responsible for legal aid.

The report on the review of legal aid will be sitting on the minister's desk probably in the middle of July, and if the Member for Klondike knew anything about the issue at all, which he clearly does not, he will know - and this is something that I brought up a number of times when I was in opposition - that you don't just throw money at legal aid to fix the problem. That's something I said on a number of occasions. There are problems around civil and criminal cases being funded by legal aid. High-profile cases -

Some Hon. Members: (Inaudible)

Chair: Order please. I call it the hockey rule. Once the referee loses sight of the puck, he blows the whistle. I can't hear the minister opposite. I'd ask that the members opposite please -

Hon. Mrs. Edelman: It is quite sad because, indeed, I do have a voice that does carry, but I still cannot be heard above the sounds from opposite.

One of the problems with legal aid that we brought out as a party, when we were in opposition, is the fact that when there's a high-profile criminal case, all the money in the legal aid budget is used to fund that case, and there isn't anything left over for civil cases. That is one of the problems with legal aid, and that was one of the issues that we brought forward when we were on the side opposite, the side that the Member for Klondike now sits on. You can't just throw money at legal aid; you have to look at the whole picture, and you have to do a good job of fixing it, because it is certainly something that needs to be fixed, and it is certainly something that our government is very, very interested in. That's why we are doing a review of legal aid. That's why we have dealt with this issue very quickly.

The Member for Klondike is very, very proud of the surplus, the history lesson about the imaginary surplus from the NDP. That was the surplus as of March 31. It is now June. That is no longer the surplus. That is history. That is living in the past. That is no longer the surplus. To be absolutely clear, as of March 31, 2001, the surplus will be $14.7 million. That's when this budget is finished. These are the issues that are on the floor. Perhaps the Member for Klondike can save his questions about legal aid for the Minister of Justice.

Mr. Jenkins: I'd like to thank the minister for her response, Mr. Chair, but I'd probably have the same success with the Minister of Justice unless, of course, it's carefully scripted for her and read off, like a news report.

If anyone's listening upstairs, I would ask that they address this area for the Minister of Justice so that she does have some answers for the House, unlike this minister. But the records clearly reflect that the surplus was $56.2 million at March 31, 2000, the end of the fiscal year, and it would have been higher had the Liberals not tabled the supplementary budget. That is their choice.

Now, we can't use the lack of money as an excuse for not addressing the shortcomings in a system. Political expediency, a lack of knowing the issues or just wanting to postpone making a decision, because there are other priorities - these are probably closer to the truth.

The issue before us is still the same. A great deal of the issues surrounding women today are the shortcomings in the legal aid system. That's what needs addressing and needs to be repaired.

This minister, with her responsibilities for the Women's Directorate, has a wonderful opportunity to consult with her colleague, the Minister of Justice, and fix it. But, I guess we're going to see it under review from now until the middle of the summer. Then it's going to be discussed and kicked around.

Can the minister provide any assurances that we will see something happen in this fiscal period, or is it something that will occur in the next budget cycle?

Hon. Mrs. Edelman: Mr. Chair, the review is not complete. I can tell the member opposite - and I will repeat this again for him, because he clearly doesn't hear what I'm saying - that the review will be sitting on the Minister of Justice's desk by the middle of July. At that point, she will look at all the options. One of the options may be to throw money at this issue. That is going to be one of the decisions that the Minister of Justice makes. Perhaps if the Member for Klondike could save his fascinating questions for the Justice department review during our budget discussions, he will get more detailed explanations from the minister responsible, who is the Minister of Justice and to whom, by the way, issues around women are very, very important.

Mr. Jenkins:I know that the minister can't answer for the Minister of Justice, but we are only 19 days away from the middle of July, and there's probably a good chance, given the speed with which the ministers of the day are answering for their various departments, that we will still be sitting. Will that information be shared with the members of this Legislature?

Hon. Mrs. Edelman: My understanding, Mr. Chair, is that when that information becomes public, it will certainly be shared with the members opposite. To be clear though, the review of legal aid is not just about women's issues; it is also about issues for men and for children and, indeed, for all Yukoners. These are not just about women's issues; these are about issues for all Yukoners.

Chair: Seeing as general debate is clear, we will now go line by line.

On Operation and Maintenance Expenditures

On Policy and Program Development

Chair: Are there any questions on the allotments?

Are there any questions on the Women's Directorate transfer payments?

Policy and Program Development in the amount of $477,000 agreed to

Chair: Since there is no capital in the Women's Directorate, we will then proceed with Yukon Housing Corporation.

Yukon Housing Corporation

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, I am pleased today to introduce the Yukon Housing Corporation budget for 2000-2001.

I will start by speaking generally of the corporation's impact on families, communities and its role in our economy.

The Yukon Housing Corporation links and invests in families, communities and the local housing industry. The corporation's program works to provide Yukoners with access to adequate, suitable and affordable housing.

The corporation's lending programs promote home ownership and repair and improvement on residential and commercial energy management. These programs put dollars directly into the hands of Yukon homeowners and business people who can purchase goods and services from the housing-related businesses. These programs are an investment in families and housing related businesses.

The corporation's social housing program assists those who need help to obtain access to adequate, suitable and affordable housing. This program is an investment in families and community infrastructure.

The corporation's training and education program assisted a range of people: the first time home buyer, the do-it-yourself renovator or builder, the industry professional. These programs are investments in people and housing stock.

Just as homes are built from blueprints, the corporation's programs are built from its strategic plan. This plan focuses on community development, technology information, direct assistance, programming, housing market development, and community and economic development.

Mr. Chair, in addition to these programs, there are two areas of particular importance to this government. I will be working with this corporation to maximize our potential and to address these areas, and I will now briefly highlight work underway.

First, Mr. Chair, Yukon seniors are raising concerns about the future housing needs of its growing segment of our population. Many seniors have already made their housing needs and preferences known. The corporation is responding by identifying a range of ways of meetings seniors' immediate and long-term housing needs. I encourage all Yukon seniors to participate in examining these possibilities with the corporation when they are released for review.

Secondly, Mr. Chair, the Yukon Housing Corporation is working with some members of the housing industry to pursue diversification opportunities in external markets. I'm encouraged by industry's initiatives and the corporation's supportive role. These actions will contribute to strengthening and diversifying the housing industry and our economy.

Mr. Chair, I have spoken of two areas of particular interest to me. I will be identifying other areas as I work with the corporation and talk to Yukoners. That dialogue will begin in the coming months. I will begin visiting communities to learn first-hand about housing issues in rural Yukon.

Mr. Chair, I will now speak briefly about the corporation's budget for 2000-01.

There are no significant increases in this budget. The changes that have been made reflect consumer demand. The corporation has a capital budget of $16,629,000 for the year 2000-01. Of that amount, $4,771,000 is fully recoverable.

For the most part, these recoveries represent a repayment of loans from clients who have accessed the corporation's lending programs. The corporation has an operation and maintenance budget of $12,544,000 for the year 2000-01. Its budget is to recover $8,961,000 from previous sources. The recoveries show an increase of three percent, due to a projected increase in the interest income from the loans programs, given an increase in the programs' intake.

In closing, Mr. Chair, I have spoken about the importance of responding to seniors' housing needs and the importance of supporting the housing industry as it explores good opportunities. While the corporation is focusing on these areas, it also continues to deliver programs: the home ownership program, the home repair program, energy management programs, and education and training programs.

I am confident that, with its focus on people, whether they are renters, homeowners or home builders, the corporation will continue to provide access to adequate, suitable and affordable housing. We will continue to be a significant and constructive participant in the communities and the economy.

Mr. Keenan: Mr. Chair, this afternoon, I heard in Question Period the Minister of Community and Transportation Services speak about the budget and answer a direct question from the Member for Vuntut Gwitchin.

Certainly, Mr. Chair, I know that Cabinet got briefed, got up to speed, made the decision on the budget and to proceed with the budget as is - today I heard a deviation that we're moving away from that budget a bit in C&TS. I'd like to ask the minister: does the minister believe in the budget before him? Are there any changes that you've instructed the officials to change, or have the officials suggested changes to the minister?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, there have been no changes to the budget. We are proceeding as we said before in that we will honour this budget and that we will carry on. I'm fairly confident that, with the team that we have at Yukon Housing Corporation, we are looking forward to this budget.

Mr. Keenan: Well, that really wasn't the question. I'm glad that the member is looking forward to the budget. It's a heck of a good budget. It touches bases in a lot of places. I certainly agree with the member opposite about the quality of the budget, but that wasn't the question. The question was direct: do you believe in all of the programs as they've been laid out within the budget. You're going to make - I always hear "best effort" over there. You're going to make very best efforts to follow through with the budget as it is laid out; you're not going to take one segment from the budget and move it over, like the Old Crow school bus. I'd like that said, for the record, on the floor.

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, the board of directors for the Yukon Housing Corporation has the ability and the flexibility to move those dollars for consumer demand, and they've always had that ability, and we have to go in accordance with what the demand is out there, and I really can't make a commitment and say that no, we will not make changes to this. We're here to serve the needs of our clients, and that's exactly where we're at with this.

Mr. Keenan: Does the member believe in the budget as presented? I kind of detect that there is a bit of a move to hide behind the board of directors and the ability to move. I understand that there is an ability to move from the department, as they can at different times. Their best efforts, I guess, is to work with the budget as laid out, so I'm asking the minister - not the board of directors - do you believe in the budget as laid out?

Chair: I would ask all members to respectfully make their comments through the Chair rather than use the word "you".

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, I would say again that we are serving the needs of the clients. I would say also that yes, if the homeowners program helps Yukoners in any way, if it helps renters, if it helps businesses, yes, we will. If that is the question that he is asking with regard to the budget, that's our answer.

Mr. Keenan: Can the minister please just stand on his feet and tell me a bit about the minister's vision for the department?

I've heard the minister say twice now that it's more or less client driven. Can the minister expand on his vision for what the minister would like to accomplish within six months, a year, four years, if he is so lucky to be a minister for four years in the Housing Corporation? Share your vision with me, please.

Hon. Mr. Jim: Okay. First of all, I think we definitely have to deal with Mountainview Place. That's an outstanding issue.

We have to deal with the seniors, as we've said in our platform and we are dealing with our seniors and we are coming up with a plan this winter, and one of the things that we're looking at is home ownership. Again, we're looking at renters and businesses and economic development. Within Economic Development, we're looking at diversifying our economy to see what advantages we have with regard to our economy.

Mr. Keenan: Thank you very much for that vision, Mr. Chair.

Can the minister talk about the current status on the exports initiatives that are going into Chile?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, with the Neil Letang construction group, they're packaging four units in Vancouver as we speak. They're on their way to Chile within the upcoming week, and they will be landing on August 1 in Chile. With the BLC group, they're going to Chile this weekend. They're heading off to Chile right now, this coming weekend.

Mr. Keenan: Mr. Chair, some of the information I received on the BLC group and Chile is that they're working toward a social housing development. If that happens, will there be Yukon jobs created out of that? Is that all within the minister's knowledge?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Yes, Mr. Chair. Yukon jobs will operate from here. It will create Yukon jobs here.

Mr. Keenan: Would the minister elaborate on how many jobs and their potential? The minister does not have to be specific, but I'd like a general assumption, if I might, please, as to how many? Will people be going to Chile with them or will they be taking just pushers or labourers or professionals? What is the makeup?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, right now, it's a bit premature to speculate what sorts of numbers we are looking at. Right now, the BLC group is going to Chile, and they are going to negotiate the contracts with the Chileans. They are doing a presentation right now. Hopefully, they will secure a contract. If they do secure a contract, it depends on just what size of a contract is secured.

Mr. Keenan: So, Mr. Chair, the minister is telling me that it's a bit premature to speak of any Yukon jobs for folks in Chile surrounding the social-housing concept? I always kind of thought that that was the whole idea as to how we would be diversifying our economy, and that it would be through those efforts. So, I am a bit shocked that the minister can't speak to even a standard as to how many people would be employed by a Yukon crew as they go. Is it just the construction name that goes and they make the bucks, or is it absolutely - can the minister tell me just a little bit about it? Four? Two people and his wife? How many people?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, again, it would be a bit premature to speculate as to how many numbers there are. We don't know. They are going there right now to make a presentation. Again, they are trying to secure a contract. Once they secure that contract, we will definitely get back to the member opposite and give him an answer on numbers, if that's what he wants.

Mr. Keenan: Yes, I would very much appreciate that from the minister. If the minister could give me the history of the project, at least an allusion as to how many jobs the minister expects that would be created and how much money Yukon Housing Corporation has put forth to this. And are we going to get the best bang for our buck?

So, I'd like a good history and I'll let the minister off with that this sitting.

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, the board of directors of the Yukon Housing Corporation has approved $25,000 for training modules to provide some training and for a trip to Chile to speak on light-frame construction for homes or housing units.

So overall, the amount of money that has been spent is $25,000 and we're working on training modules for this venture.

Mr. Keenan: Mr. Chair, I'd like to just move over to the Yukon seniors conference report. When can we expect to see some policy direction commitments made, based on the recommendations?

Hon. Mr. Jim: The action plan is still in the stages of development, although it still has to go to the board and we're looking at probably later this summer or fall so we can consult with the seniors.

Mr. Keenan: I think what I heard from the minister was that you're looking at the report, you're going to go back, and you said you're going to consult with the seniors. I would take it that maybe it was the steering committee or something like as such. Why would you be going back as the minister and speaking to the seniors?

Chair: Just a reminder that I would ask members to speak through the Chair and to not refer to members as "you".

Hon. Mr. Jim: I have to let the member opposite know that it is the corporation that's doing this and that I will be going to do this.

Mr. Keenan: What's the corporation going to do?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, we will be taking this to the board. The board will be reviewing it. We'll consult with the seniors, and we will act upon the direction that we get from the seniors. We will have proactive responses to the needs of the seniors.

Mr. Keenan: Just to clarify here - the member has said twice in this very limited debate that it is the board. Can I just get the member to explain this: when he says "we", is he speaking on behalf of government or of the board, or is it the ministerial relationship that they have with it? It's getting to be a bit confusing for me. Are we hiding behind the board, or are we speaking before a board?

Hon. Mr. Jim: We're not hiding, for one thing. We're not hiding. What it is is that it is my - I'm sorry, I apologize. It's not "we". We realize that - again, it's the way I speak. The special relationship that we have with Yukon Housing Corporation and the caucus, the members of government, and definitely they are accountable to the Legislature for the corporation - or I am, and I will work on saying that it is Yukon Housing Corporation, and I'll work on saying that when it's my duty as the member, and I will try and make it very clear as to what "we" is all about.

Mr. Keenan: Well, Mr. Chair, we all have habits that we've had for a long time. The member says "we", I say "you", so we'll all get along, as long as we can clarify this and there's not a conscious effort to hide behind a board. It's very clear and I want to make sure that is said. When I ask questions here, I would expect that the member would be able to speak from that knowledge base of what the board is doing because the board certainly does represent an integral part of the Yukon community.

So, Mr. Chair, if I may sum it up on this one particular issue on the seniors report, would it be possible or plausible to say that it would be this fall that the process would conclude, now that you have tabled the report, read the report. There are not really recommendations but kind of semi-concrete, recommendations of where the people would like to go based on their input into the seniors report. Is the minister now going to take it back to that planning committee or steering group of elders and seniors, and ask them for their prioritization of these semi-quasi recommendations, and then look at putting it into the next budget cycle?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, basically I guess the action plan is still being developed as we speak, and we will be coming back with more information on this in the very near future, or in the fall.

Going back to the previous question, we are not hiding behind the corporation in any way. And I say "we" in that we have to report to the Legislature on the corporation.

Mr. Keenan: Mr. Chair, I think what I've heard then is that, very soon, this fall, it's going to be out there for prioritization and that the action plan will be back.

I guess what I'm trying to get from the minister here - I heard from the Member for Riverdale South; the sunny side of Riverdale - speak about reports sometimes being used as bookends. I want to make sure that the minister is not looking at treating some of these very stringent and good ideas that come from the report as bookends. I hope they will actually make it into some type of direction in the budget cycle.

I'm not trying to be sneaky. I'm trying to be upright and I'm trying to get the minister to say if that is his plan. That's what I'm trying to accomplish.

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, I don't know what the member opposite means as far as bookends, but, no, basically, we're not going to be using it as bookends.

Mr. Keenan: That's one tone that I'll remember.

The minister spoke about Mountainview Place. Can the minister just stand on his feet and talk about - well, the Member for Porter Creek North, I think it was, had, during the election, all sorts of things to say about it. I have press copies here. Can the minister please stand on his feet and say when and how they are going to fix this problem that they deemed a problem?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, the Mountainview Place is a 69-unit mobile home community, and was part of the previous government's mobile home strategy. It was intended to be an affordable home ownership option for tenants who were renting their mobile home pad and wanted to own their own pad.

This government will continue to provide home ownership options to Yukoners. This government is very concerned with the health and safety issues of residents of mobile home parks. Also, Yukon Housing Corporation will evaluate the Mountainview Place project this coming winter. We foresee - when I say we, I look at the Yukon Housing Corporation and myself as a team - creating an ugly duckling to a nice swan.

Mr. Keenan: There were all sorts of answers during the election. Of course, after the election you sum up, how many was it - 122? They must be getting awful costly because the answers that were there just two short months ago are now into an evaluation program, and it's going to be done this fall. In the meantime, could the minister please stand on his feet and tell me about their new affordable mobile home strategy and what options that minister is planning to bring forth?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, we definitely see that there are problems with the Mountainview Place. At present, there are only five agreements to purchase. We realize that there are health and safety issues that we consider very important and they are very important to me. We are definitely looking at this for review.

I have instructed the Yukon Housing Corporation to find better solutions to this problem. We realize that in the fall there will be a clearer picture of the number of options for the selection of the best process to take in filling this mobile home location.

Mr. Keenan: Well, Mr. Chair, I understand that, yes, we're going to evaluate it. I'd certainly like to know what, in the minister's mind, the problem was. Of course, it will come through the corporation, but certainly I'm very interested in that.

That's not exactly what I asked the minister, though. In absence of an affordable mobile home - and we are going to be developing options this winter - does the minister have a political vision for the minister's department? What is the minister's vision as to coming up with an affordable mobile home option if the one option that they see there is not going to work? They say there are problems. I'd certainly like to know what, in the minister's mind, the problems were and are, as soon as I can.

They're going to evaluate that this winter. Does that mean that the lots still are not for sale at this point in time? If a lot is bought and sold at this point in time, will it be grandfathered into any policy that might be made to be more lucrative to selling the lots there? There's a grandfathering option there, but I'd like to know predominantly what the minister's vision is for an affordable mobile home option, and I'm not interested particularly in the board of directors' vision, because I know they have a good vision. I'd like to know what the minister's vision is.

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, once again, we have to say that there are five agreements within that area. We know there is a problem at McIntyre. There's an open space up there, enough to fill up two football fields. It still sits there, and it's from the previous government.

It's still okay to purchase lots up there today. It's premature to say the outcome prior to conducting a review on this, and I will not, as minister responsible for Yukon Housing Corporation, start speculating on exactly what the board sees fit for the mobile home units.

Mr. Keenan: Well, Mr. Chair, I'm a little surprised at the minister's answer. For goodness sake, it's in the minister's riding. At the doorstep he was talking about doing something different. Now I ask for an explanation of how the minister's vision is for his department, and certainly, he was speaking at the doorsteps about this and the minister can't tell me what his personal vision is. We certainly can hide behind - well, it's my problem because I was a part of the management, I was a part of the problem, and I was part of the Cabinet that made this decision. But, doggone it, we went out and made the decisions for people who were in need. This member, in his own riding, can't even describe the policy, let alone what we're going to do for the people within his own riding.

I'm asking the minister responsible for the Yukon Housing Corporation if he has a vision for an affordable mobile home strategy and what the principles of that might be. Not once, in this question, do I want to hear the member opposite talk about Mountainview - just the vision.

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, this government is very concerned with the health and safety of residents of mobile home parks. We realize that there is an issue there with the open space at Mountainview Place. The Yukon Housing Corporation will evaluate the Mountainview Place project this coming winter.

It is my vision to complete and fulfill this Moutainview Place project and to see it filled in. Again, the previous government has tabled us with an ugly duckling. We want to make it to at least come out as a half-decent swan.

We are looking at affordable housing options. We are looking at other avenues that need to be looked at for these lots, and they need to be filled. We realize that there's a big problem there, and it is coming up this winter.

Mr. Keenan: I asked the member opposite not to mention Mountainview Place, but it seems that in absence of a vision - well, actually I shouldn't say the absence of a vision, Mr. Chair, because the member, when he did speak, stood on his feet and spoke about the NDP vision. He's implementing the NDP vision right now.

He said he was going to turn it over to the board of directors to look at some options. Certainly the minister responsible for the Yukon Housing Corporation knows, or should know, that overcrowding here is one of the detriments to a good quality of living in the Yukon Territory.

Is the member saying, "Well, we can get a bang for our buck if people don't really need a quality of life, and we can just squeeze in a couple more trailers in the layout."?

I would like to ask the member if he could stand on his feet and tell me. The member obviously stood on his feet during the election campaign and said, "This is what we're going to do differently. We're going to do something different." What are you going to do that is different?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, the NDP vision was simply not working, and it is simply not working with Mountainview Place. It wasn't working then and it does not work now, and we're working at trying to find some different agreements. The only thing that we have now is five agreements to purchase these lots to date. Other than that, we still have this problem at Mountainview Place, and we will be going back to it. And this coming winter, there will be different options and better options, better solutions to getting these lots filled.

Mr. Keenan: Well certainly, Mr. Chair, if they're going to adopt the NDP budget, then they certainly should be adopting the NDP vision. In absence of the NDP vision, but in collusion with the budget, if you do not have a vision of your own - my God, it's going to be fun this fall and I look forward to it. And that is not a threat, Mr. Chair. That's just a little bit of a warning.

I would like to know what the minister's vision is. The member stood out there and spoke about doing something different and just beat the tar out of the New Democrat vision. And the NDP did have a vision and recognized that there were problems, recognized that people need quality of life and looked at different options. The member stands on his feet, thumps up the NDP vision, thumps up our budget, yet that's all he's got in his back pocket, and then he speaks of his vision, and, Mr. Chair, there isn't even need for a commercial break in that vision because there isn't a vision.

So, I would very much like to hear maybe a little bit more about Moutainview Place. When we get through with talking about the bumbling that happened with Mountainview Place, would the minister please carry on with the minister's vision. I would very much like to hear what the minister's vision is.

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, I must reiterate once again that the NDP's vision just did not work and it will not work. There is no reason why they should think we're after their vision or following their vision. Sorry, but what we're doing now is correcting - not correcting necessarily - but trying to help them out with some of the problems that were presented before us in this government, from the previous government.

Again, I will reiterate that we only have five agreements since we got in here to purchase these lots. These lots are being slowly purchased. Our clients are in a number one need program. We need programs that clients want.

I really don't know what it is that he's after. If he could get more specific with regard to this vision that he's looking at - our vision is one that was tabled in front of this government by the previous government. It is the problem with the Mountainview Place. Moutainview Place is something that we will be looking at. We are looking at it now, as we speak.

I have the utmost confidence in the Yukon Housing Corporation team. We are looking at different options - better options and solutions to solving this problem here. We are also keeping in mind the health and safety aspects of these different units and the crowding problems in different trailer parks. We know that there are some options and we are right in the process now of taking those on. Those are directives that came from me to the Yukon Housing Corporation.

Mr. Keenan:What that preamble told me is that there is no vision, that, certainly, you'll say anything on a doorstep to get yourself elected, but let me also say that people are not foolish. People realize that government has to provide leadership and that personality-driven leadership just will not cut it. It just will simply not cut it. I expect the member - and I'm being kind - to have a vision, to have some type of solution. Everybody knows what the problems are. It's the smart politician and it's the leadership that comes forth and provides the solutions to the problems. Just don't reiterate the problems over and over and over.

But, speaking of the problems, could the member maybe stand on his feet and talk about just what are some of the problems and the obstacles encountered?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, can the member opposite please clarify his question his little bit?

Mr. Keenan: With pleasure, Mr. Chair. Certainly, I understand that the Liberal government has no vision, when you ask a minister on his feet to stand here and speak about the vision that got them elected, they quickly point to the NDP budget. When the NDP asks, "What is your vision?", the member quickly turns and says, "Well, it's your vision and your budget, so we don't have a vision. It's a corporation anyway, by gosh, and maybe I should try and hide behind that corporation, but if I can't do that, well, maybe I should just review it, and if I can't review it, well, then we should develop some options." I think I pulled it all together there?

Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible)

Mr. Keenan: Yes. So, now you ask me for a more simplistic question. If the member does not have a personal vision or a Liberal vision to bring to the problem - and the problems that I am talking about include an affordable mobile home option strategy, and the member does not have a vision. I have spoken to the member about the fact that he should know the answers; we all know the questions. Then, if he doesn't have the vision, then does the member really know what the problems are? What are the problems and obstacles that are encountered that are to the detriment of the selling of these lots?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, getting back to the first question about vision, it is our view - this government's view - that we want to be open and accountable, and we want to be able to speak to Yukoners. We want to get the Yukoners' view and find out what the options are that would work, options that make sense, options that people want and options that people can afford. We are actually going in a consolidated process with the people of the Yukon, and it doesn't really matter what my vision is. My vision, first of all, is that there is health and safety for people of the Yukon. Unless we get that vision from the people of the Yukon - and we are here to serve the best interests of Yukoners, and I really don't understand what this guy, what the member opposite, is trying to pin his question on.

Mr. Keenan: Mr. Chair, this guy is not trying to pin his question on to anybody, not at all. This guy is just trying to find out if the member has a vision. Obviously, the member has no vision, but the member did say something that intrigued me. The member spoke about going out and talking to people, talking about consulting with people on what their vision is so that you might be able to have a vision, too, to seed upon.

Can you tell me when this is going to happen, what the timeframes and the closure dates are, what you expect out of it and who's going to participate?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, we will be, and we have been, as we got into the first date, very open and very accountable.

We are having a strong working relationship with the people. Unlike the previous government, this government is prepared to go out and talk to the people. This government is prepared to find options that do work and options that make sense. Again, they are options that people want and can afford.

Mr. Keenan: This guy certainly isn't getting a chance to ask the questions. Or, he is getting the chance to ask the questions, but the minister opposite isn't providing the answers. I guess that says that the minister doesn't know what the problems are, so it's pretty hard to adopt or develop a vision. So, we'll just go out there and adopt a vision.

Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible)

Mr. Keenan: My God, you're right; it is a New Democrat-Liberal government vision.

Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible)

Mr. Keenan: Okay, I'm getting it now, a New Liberal-Democrat vision. Well, Mr. Chair, we'll just move on, but I'm looking forward to this fall.

I would also like to know what's happening with any legal dealings with the FREL? Will there be a move to proceed with foreclosure proceedings or anything like as such? Tell me what the minister knows about FREL.

Hon. Mr. Jim: I know a bit about FREL. It's the Faro Real Estate Limited. It owns 60 percent of the total rental units and 40 percent of the single family housing units in Faro.

The Yukon Housing Corporation owns a mortgage on FREL's properties in Faro. This company is one of Yukon Housing Corporation's clients. As a matter of policy, the corporation does not publicly discuss clients' files or financial obligations or situations.

Mr. Keenan: That's exactly what I would have said. Only I would have said it a lot simpler and much shorter.

Well, just talking about Faro, will there be any new money to follow through on the election commitments that the Liberal candidate made in Faro to increase the amount of money available for mortgage financing for homes in Faro? Or are we just going to simply cut and run on our Liberal candidate in Faro, the same as we've done with the one in Watson Lake, because he never got elected, and there's a bit of punishment there? So, would the minister please stand on his feet and talk to me about that?

Hon. Mr. Jim: In 1998, when Yukon Housing considered providing mortgage lending in Faro, they did so by putting in place lending parameters that would limit the exposure that Yukon taxpayers were taking. They set a budget, they targeted a limited number of clients and they set minimum down payment terms. They set shorter amortization periods than normal, and so on. They did this to manage and minimize the risks to Yukoners and, at the same time, to offer some home ownership lending to support the Town of Faro.

Presently, Yukon Housing has invested close to half a millions dollars and have helped 16 people buy homes in Faro. Yukon Housing Corporation's per capita market share in Faro is greater than any other Yukon community. Because of the economic uncertainty in the Town of Faro, it would be inappropriate for this government to direct further investment by the corporation in mortgage lending at this time.

Mr. Keenan: The member certainly never answered this guy's question, that's for sure.

So, I would like to know if there's going to be any money identified to follow through with the election commitment -that's new money - to increase the amount of money available for mortgage financing for homes in Faro.

Hon. Mr. Jim: Again, we must reiterate that, because of the economic uncertainty in the Town of Faro, it would be inappropriate for this government to direct further investment by the corporation in mortgage lending at this time.

Mr. Keenan: Well, Mr. Chair, that's certainly taking back the comments that were made by the previous Government Leader back in the days of the tenure of the Yukon Party. The leader of the Yukon Party said at that time that he didn't expect Carmacks to be there any more because it's just sort of a gold rush town. Mr. Chair, that appalls me, because that is the attitude that I see rising from the Liberal government ranks, and that is appalling. That is not even a good answer. It's a terrible answer, and it's a slur against the people who live in Faro.

My God, people from Faro are getting national recognition from Faro by diversifying the economy, and we have a minister standing here talking about the economic uncertainty. This NDP, when we were in government, went out and challenged the economy. We looked at diversification, and what did we get? Every time, we got thumped from the Liberals - "Stay closer to home, do this, do that" - and now I see them standing here, a minister standing on his feet in this House, giving a typical Liberal line at this point in time - "It's under review," or, "We've got to go on a vacation," or hide behind the board, or "We're going to evaluate it later."

And now, to slur - I expected the member to cut and run. I absolutely expected the member to cut and run on the candidate because that is their history. But to stand there and talk about calling down the Town of Faro because of economic uncertainty, pinpointing one community that is down and needs help, is just typical of this Liberal government, Mr. Chair, if I can say it is this way. Because here we have the only boom town in the Yukon Territory, Watson Lake, requiring political leadership, and the Premier, along with her Cabinet, stands and says, "Nobody's phoned me. I didn't know there was a problem."

Well, I would suggest to the minister that he be just a little more focused and not be running down the people of Faro. And maybe I would even suggest that they shouldn't be cutting and running from their Liberal candidates - or are there some other kind of patronage appointments that are coming whereby you can cut here and stroke there? That is typical of a Liberal Party government.

I think I'll just leave that at this time. I'd like to move on a bit.

Let's see what the minister knows about the building that the Yukon Housing Corporation lives in now. Are there any plans for renovation? It has electric heat. Is there a move to change to a cheaper heat source?

There is some unoccupied space in the storefront rental units. Is Yukon Housing going to go after new tenants to create some income to pay off the debt incurred to buy the building?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, to get to the member's comments earlier on about Faro, I explained before that this is a situation that we are in and it's not our stance or belief. We actually do believe in Faro and we also believe in rural Yukon and we believe in Yukoners - all Yukoners.

We've also provided this homeowner program to residents in 1998-99 on a limited basis. The budget was set on a number of units targeted for home ownership. These targets were met in June 1999.

Yukon Housing was offered the opportunity to purchase the building at 410 Jarvis Street in Whitehorse at which the Whitehorse office has been located for several years. Over the years, Yukon Housing made approximately $200,000 in leasehold improvements to the building, such as computer cabling, partitions, shelving, et cetera.

The building meets the corporation's present and future needs. The corporation evaluated the costs and benefits, and it concluded that the purchase of the building would make good financial and administrative sense.

Mr. Harding: Mr. Chair, I've been listening to the debate, and I'm not going to take up much time, but I just want to say that I stood at a debate in front of about 40 to 50 people in Faro. The Liberal candidate promised clearly, unequivocally, that there would be more Yukon Housing Corporation mortgage money made available if a Liberal government were? elected. Now the Liberals want to cut and run on candidates' promises, but I say that they're accountable, and I'm going to be making sure that the information the minister just shared is made available to as many people in the community as possible, and I'm going to make sure the people in the Yukon and in my community know that the Liberal candidate was talking through his hat. He has absolutely no stroke. He was saying anything to get elected. It's a theme fairly consistent with just about everybody in the Liberal government and their candidates. We have seen them cut and run now on Watson Lake on the extended care facility. We have now seen them cut and run on Faro.

For the member to stand up and say that, because of the economic times and the uncertainty of Faro, they're not going to consider more Yukon Housing Corporation mortgage funding is basically saying that this government isn't going to do anything in Faro because there's uncertainty there.

I want to tell the minister that it is because of that program that the NDP government first extended that there is a future for Faro, because 17 people, I believe, bought homes. And I think the record of repayment on those mortgages has been exemplary. People in Faro, as an economic development tool, are living there and working in the area and around all different parts of the Yukon - and some are even in B.C. - and living there. And some people even bought their homes and have retired in Faro. One couple from Ross River has retired in Faro.

To say that they're not going to extend any more Housing Corporation mortgage funding when it was promised clearly - and I know, because I have had constituents tell me that they promised it and they heard it and it was unequivocal. I am disappointed but not totally surprised by what I'm hearing today.

I think that the minister should take another look. He should have a discussion with the board and the candidate because the future of the community is in the balance, which you have here now. To take that kind of position - when the government doesn't do what it said it was going to do - is going to have a very detrimental effect on the future of that community.

Hon. Mr. Jim: The comment to which the member opposite is speaking on is purely speculation. It is not necessarily factual. I have talked to the candidate from Faro and the word that I got is that he will be working hard for people in Faro. We believe in the people of Faro, and we believe in rural Yukon, and we also believe in all Yukoners.

Mr. Keenan: Well, Mr. Chair, that's not true. It's not purely in speculation; it's not factual; it's what will be said on the floor, I guess, in a heated debate to get elected. Certainly it hasn't happened on this end, but it certainly happened on the opposite side. I think there was just a bunch of shock and surprise come election night when they went, "Holy moly, we actually did it. Now what do we do? I know, we'll adopt the NDP vision and the NDP budget." Unfortunately, you can't take that broad-based vision and put it into some members' heads in increments. It just does not work. They come up with pure boxlines that say pure speculation and not factual. Well, that is absolutely not the truth. I don't know. Maybe we'll have to ask, and maybe somebody videotaped that one too, as they did in Watson Lake, so that we could keep the government honest. That's what's factual.

Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible)

Mr. Keenan: Got to do it, and you don't need a commercial pause, because they only say it in 30-second sound bytes, and that's it.

I'm beginning to think that the standard line from the members opposite is, "Well, that's what I said, but that's not what I meant." I think I'm going to be hearing that an awful lot more and I tell you, that's just not going to do it, Mr. Chair. It's just not going to do it.

I'd like some answers. I'd like to have answers when I ask a question. If you can't have it on the floor of the House, I certainly understand that also. But I do expect an answer; I just don't expect sauciness, I guess.

I'd like talk, in a little bit here, about their building. I asked some questions about the electric heat and if there would be a move to change that. If the member's researchers or executive assistants need something to do, they can certainly go out and research the Blues in the morning. I'd appreciate a letter back as to what they are going to do with the building, as to the electric heat. Are they going to apply for some of their own programming, or what? I'd like to know those types of issues, please.

With the effect of the staff housing, though, I heard the Minister of Health and Social Services say that he hadn't spoken about it to the Minister of Government Services, and we're into Yukon Housing right now, about local hire benefits and whatnot, but I'd like to know what the minister's view is, I guess, of staff housing with Yukon Housing Corporation in terms of respect. Is there any flexibility coming within the vision - or the lack of vision - out there on local hire and getting people here to offer units into the communities for health professionals and teachers, et cetera?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, I assume that what the member opposite is talking about is how does local hire fit in with staff coming up from down south. We are in the process of reviewing this. We are looking at those options and we're very confident that, this fall, we will be coming up with some better solutions to the problem and that this staff housing that is available to employees is especially important when we hire staff on from outside.

That's an issue that has been brought forth to us, and we're very aware of it, and we are working toward that, coming this fall. We will have some better solutions for this.

Mr. Keenan: I won't belabour the point, but I would just like to know a little bit more about it. It could be in a written form. I'd like to know when the government is going to be doing it. Is it only going to be for professionals who are identified as lacking in the communities, such as nurses, teachers or game wardens, whatever? I would expect that the minister would be able to reply in that light, as to who would benefit from it. Would it be just a simple break on rent for employees, et cetera? So I would like to know all that information. I would really like to know what the member's vision is for that change.

Hon. Mr. Jim: We'll definitely update him on this, and we'll get back to the member with more information in the future.

Mr. Keenan: Mr. Chair, it has been brought to my attention in rural communities - mostly rural communities, but it might be a community problem in the City of Whitehorse, here, too - that there's a difference between social housing and staff housing. In some cases, I do believe that they're even sharing duplexes - social housing on one side, staff housing on the other side. Yet the rules are different in consideration of pets - if you have a cat, dog, parrot. If you're into social housing, no, no, no, no, no. If you're into staff housing, you bet. I'd just like to know if the minister is going to be doing something about that, or if it's expected to be a Human Rights Commission challenge.

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, a Mayo social-housing tenant has challenged the pet policy established by the community advisory board in Mayo. The Community Housing Advisory Board established a pet policy for their communities, and concerns have been raised about pet policies in some communities. Pet policies are very sensitive policies. Yukon Housing has been discussing pet policies with the Yukon Human Rights Commission and is seeking their help in addressing concerns raised by the tenants. I don't know what more I can answer to that, but that's generally where we're at with it.

Mr. Keenan: I take exception to that. I understand there are community advisory committees in each community, but I understand that their policy is generic. I would appreciate knowing whether it's generic or specific. I do believe that there's a point here, that there's a difference, Mr. Chair, between social housing and staff housing. If they share the same duplex or if there are two duplexes in the same building and they share that - or even they're a block apart and one is social housing and one is staff housing - there should be no difference between somebody who does not have a job and somebody who does have a job. The standards should be the same.

So, I'd like for the member to stand on his feet and to state whether he agrees with me or disagrees with me.

Hon. Mr. Jim: There is flexibility because of our social housing transfer agreement. We have community boards that look after the social housing and we have the Yukon Housing Corporation that looks after staff housing. We are very aware of this issue of social housing right next door to staff housing. Again, that's one of the issues that is raised and we will be looking at it again in the fall.

Mr. Keenan: Is the member telling me that they're going to be looking at it in a generic, territory-wide basis and not leaving it up to the social housing committee? I feel myself, personally, that it's unfair that, if you're in staff housing, you'd be under the auspices of the Yukon Housing Corporation but if you're in social housing - and they all belong to Yukon Housing Corporation - you come under a community advisory board.

What I'm hearing the minister say is that they're looking at the discrepancies between the two, and there are some, or would be, and to meld them together so that what Peter gets is good for Paul, or what Susie gets is good for Pat?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, I wouldn't know about Suzy or Paul or Pat or what's good for them. What I think the member opposite wants is to know if this is going to be an ad hoc type of Yukon Housing Corporation. We would like to say again that it is under review. It's with the Human Rights Commission, as well. It's a bit premature at this time to make speculation on what the Yukon Housing Corporation's issue is with this problem.

Mr. Keenan: Mr. Chair, I was just about to sit down and turn it over, until some juicy tidbits came up there, so bear with me, if you would. Not once did I say "ad hoc". I certainly respect the work that the Yukon Housing Corporation's members have done. They have done a mighty fine job working with government and I expect that will continue. If the right direction is given, then it certainly will.

What I'm saying, Mr. Chair, is that there's social housing and staff housing. They are both under little, miniature umbrellas, but there's a great, big, beach umbrella over those two minis that hold it all together under the umbrella scenario. There are going to be options.

As with everything else in this government, it's under review at this point in time. Is the minister going to send some questionnaires out to the people who are affected in the staff housing? Are you going to be consulting with the proponents in the social housing side and in the staff housing side, so that we might be able to come to some sort of agreeable solution? I, for one, do believe that if you have a cat, no matter what its name is, it doesn't matter. It shouldn't matter if you're on the social side of things or the staff side of things. It should be a generic process. So, the member is going to be going out, through the auspices of the Yukon Housing Corporation, to figure that out and make it right. Is that correct?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, this issue is under the Human Rights Commission. It is being tabled for the Human Rights Commission. We are going to be going and consulting on another two with the local housing advisory boards. There is a process, and I really can't speculate the outcome of the pet policy issue. We are working on solving problems, and we are working on a more fair and equitable solution to this problem.

Mr. Jenkins: I'd like to ask the minister if the trend is going to be continuing with his Liberal government, if they are going to politicize the appointment of the senior level in the departments with a Liberal appointee as president of the Yukon Housing Corporation?

Hon. Mr. Jim: In June of 1999, the president was appointed to the chair by the previous government. If we look back to the previous government, I don't know if it was a political appointee or not, but this government certainly has not appointed the president. The OIC was okayed and it was passed by the previous government.

Mr. Jenkins: That's not the question I asked the minister, Mr. Chair. I asked if the minister and his Liberal government were going to make a change and make an appointment of a Liberal-leaning new president to the Yukon Housing Corporation. Does the minister anticipate a change to the role of president within the Housing Corporation, such as we have just learned about today with the Liquor Corporation?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, I really can't speculate as to what's going to happen tomorrow or the next day. Changes happen throughout, from time to time. Change is part of the nature of this world. I don't know specifically what the member opposite is really getting at. I would say that I would be speculating as to what he's trying to say in regard to change.

Mr. Jenkins: I'm not asking the minister to speculate. What I'm asking the minister is to state categorically if his government anticipates any change in the senior public sector employee - the head of the Yukon Housing Corporation; the president of the Yukon Housing Corporation. Does he anticipate any change?

I see the minister has just received a briefing note, so probably he's got a good reason to opt out of the question or has a good answer as to why he can't answer it.

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, as we said before, earlier on, the president's position was accepted, through an OIC, in the different, previous government. We see no reason why there should be any changes in that respect, and I would inform the member opposite that I don't see any reason for it.

Mr. Jenkins: Well, we've just seen a change today in the head of the Yukon Liquor Corporation. There was a new president appointed by this Liberal government, and I'm just wanting to ascertain from this minister, Mr. Chair, if his government anticipates any changes in the presidency of the Yukon Housing Corporation. It's a simple yes or no.

Hon. Mr. Jim: Again I would say, Mr. Chair, that I cannot answer for the Yukon Liquor Corporation, but we see no changes for the president's position at the Yukon Housing Corporation.

Mr. Jenkins: I'd like to explore some of the policies and some of the studies that have taken place with respect to Yukon Housing Corporation, Mr. Chair, and probably one of the first ones deals with the community housing study that took place through the Yukon. Just when are we going to see any of the results of this and see the results implemented?

Hon. Mr. Jim: The report is all complete, Mr. Chair. It's going right through to computer data right now. It is being processed. We are hopeful - we're not hopeful; it will come out later on this fall. We will be presenting this to the major stakeholders in the community.

Mr. Jenkins: Could the minister advise the House as to the timelines, from the start of this study to its completion, as to when we will see this actual report?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, to the member opposite, I would be more than happy to get back to him with respect to the timelines at a later date.

Mr. Jenkins: Well, if I suggested that it appears that a small study of this nature is taking some two years, would that shock the minister?

Hon. Mr. Jim: I would like to say that the funding was a two-year funding project, and it's now complete. The data is being input on computer, and we're now in the process of making that report ready for the fall.

Mr. Jenkins: So, the impediment to its early completion was that the funding for the research appears to have been over two fiscal periods, Mr. Chair, and furthermore, we're just inputting all of the data now and the report will be discussed with the stakeholders this fall. Will it be in a draft form this fall, or will it be in its completed form?

Hon. Mr. Jim: I guess one of the reasons for it taking such a long time is that there is the lack of resources in the communities of the Yukon. The project is complete - complete in the sense of data analysis - and we are compiling this information on the data bases. One of the reasons is that we had to hire community surveyors. We look forward to going to the communities and presenting this material.

We would also like this process to be distributed and the information used by the communities. The process, I guess, again, has to go back to the lack of resources and the people we had to hire in the communities. We say that we look forward to going to the communities. Once again, we add to the information that it is to be used by these communities. We have full confidence in the Yukon Housing Corporation to fulfill this by this fall.

Chair: The time being 4:30 p.m., would members care to take a short recess?

Some Hon. Members: Agreed.

Chair: We'll take a 10-minute recess.

Recess

Chair: I will call Committee of the Whole to order.

Hon. Mr. Jim: In terms of numbers, I've made an error. The numbers were incorrect. What I was looking at was not the information that I was to present to you. The correct numbers for the capital expenditures is $16,629,000 and the capital recoveries are $14,771,000. I reiterated that in my speech. The second number on the O&M is $12,544,000; the recoveries are $8,890,000. The number that was used in my speech was $8,961,000; however, the real recovery is $8,890,000.

Mr. Jenkins:Just before the break, I was discussing with the minister the community housing study and the time period it was taking to complete this study and at least get into a draft form. Initially it was because of the funding that was provided over two years for the study, then we subsequently learned there are not enough people around to undertake the study, at least those were the minister's own words.

Given the number of consultants available in the Whitehorse area and given one of the highest unemployment rates in Canada, I find it extremely far-fetched that qualified individuals who understand the basis of a study of this nature are not readily available, and that it takes some two years to assemble the data for a very basic study. We have heard two excuses now. What's the minister's third excuse?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, I'm pretty confused as to what he says about excuses. There is no excuse. I didn't mention anything about problems with hiring staff or a shortage of people being employed. We said that we hired surveyors. I didn't realize that I had said it was a problem in getting resources or a problem in getting staff hired. This was a project that the Northern Research Institute was hired to do, and they did all the communities. This impacted on them.

Mr. Jenkins: Well, I'm sure it did impact them, but their actual time undertaking this study for all of the Yukon communities - just how much time did they spend collecting this data throughout the Yukon?

Hon. Mr. Jim: Mr. Chair, number one, there is no money and there was no money in this budget to go ahead with, and incidentally, this is one of the largest studies that has ever been undertaken by the Yukon government. The study is complete, and we are inputting the data, and we're also looking at presenting this to people in the communities, to our major stakeholders.

I don't know what more I can say about this.

Mr. Jenkins: What I'm trying to get at is the length of time it takes to do a study. Why is it taking so long? Why is it taking so long to conclude it in a draft form? We have another several months to wait before getting it this fall in a draft form. I believe, Mr. Chai