Whitehorse, Yukon

Speaker:      I will now call the House to order.

We will proceed at this time with prayers.

Prayers

DAILY ROUTINE

Speaker:      We will proceed at this time with the Order Paper.

Tributes.

Introduction of visitors.

Are there any returns or documents for tabling?

Are there any reports of committees?

Petitions.

PETITIONS

Clerk:  Mr. Speaker and hon. members of the Assembly: I have had the honour to review a petition, being Petition No. 2 of the Second Session of the Thirtieth Legislative Assembly, as presented by the Member for Mount Lorne on April 4, 2001. This petition meets the requirements as to form of the Standing Orders of the Yukon Legislative Assembly.

Speaker:      Petition No. 2 is accordingly deemed to be read and received.

Are there any bills to be introduced?

Notices of motion.

NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr. Jenkins:      I give notice of the following motion:

THAT it is the opinion of this House that:

(1) the Premier and Minister of Renewable Resources should live up to the Liberal election commitments to be open and accountable as well as to model professional behaviour in the Legislature;

(2) refusing to answer questions and making personal attacks against opposition members asking questions in Question Period is not being open and accountable; and

(3) using demeaning language as well as misrepresenting the positions of opposition members and opposition parties in the Legislature is disrespectful of members, the electorate and the Legislature itself, and goes against their pledge to model professional behaviour in the Legislature;

THAT this House urges the Yukon Liberal Caucus to discipline the Premier and the Minister of Renewable Resources for their unprofessional behaviour in the Legislature; and

THAT this House direct the Standing Committee on Rules, Elections and Privileges to give consideration to changing the name of Question Period in the Standing Orders of the Yukon Legislative Assembly to "Answer Period" and to adding a new rule to the Guidelines for Oral Question Period stating that ministers are to provide answers in the Legislature to the best of their ability rather than to make personal attacks against members asking questions.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker:      Are there any further notices of motion?

Are there any statements by ministers?

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Hon. Ms. Buckway:      Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform this House about a significant new policy of this government to support the 2007 Canada Winter Games coming to the Yukon.

Applause

Hon. Ms. Buckway:      This government feels very strongly about promoting sport and recreation in the Yukon. This is also part of our ongoing commitment to working in cooperation with Yukon communities to promote active and healthy lives.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform this House that our government has approved an additional $12 million in funding for the Canada Winter Games. This funding will include an $8 million multi-year capital funding agreement with the City of Whitehorse that will go toward funding a new flexi-hall for the city. We are also committing an additional $2 million for games-related capital expenses. There will also be an additional $2 million allocated for operations and maintenance spending.

The total contribution of $12 million announced today will be in addition to the $9 million that had been allocated previously to the City of Whitehorse's aquatics centre. The combined amount for the funding announced today and the funding already allocated to the aquatics centre is $21 million.

The funding announced today will, of course, be contingent on significant contributions from the City of Whitehorse, the federal government and the Canada Games Host Society.

The Yukon government is confident that this bid will bring great benefits to Yukoners. These benefits will be in the form of access to new sports facilities, hosting and participating in the games themselves, the national exposure that will boost our tourism industry, all of the construction jobs that will be created by this significant infrastructure development and the long-term benefits of healthier lives for Yukoners.

Governments must be forward-thinking in their outlook, Mr. Speaker, in order to provide a better future for their constituents. The Canada Winter Games will benefit Yukoners for generations to come. Our young people will enjoy improved recreation facilities and exposure to national competition as a legacy to these games. Mr. Speaker, it is for the betterment of all Yukoners that we are pursuing these games today.

Thank you.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. McRobb:      I am pleased to rise in support of this ministerial statement today and also would like to welcome the representatives from the games committee to the Legislature. I would ask all members to join me in welcoming them.

Applause

Mr. McRobb:      Now, Mr. Speaker, this is not a new policy, because previous governments have supported the games as well. This announcement builds on the contributions made by previous governments toward the Canada Winter Games bid, which was successful. These games will make a significant contribution to our economy.

As we know, with any such games, it is very important to appreciate the many volunteers who make it a success. I would like to extend appreciation on behalf of the Legislature to the many volunteers who have participated so far and the many more who will participate in the future to make the games a success.

I would also like to thank the hard-working staff within the Department of Community and Transportation Services and other departments, who have facilitated the bid. It is appropriate that these games should take place in Whitehorse. Whitehorse is the largest community in the Yukon and there are facilities and infrastructure in place to make these games a success. There is also a spirit and excitement, not only in Whitehorse, but all over the territory, to make sure these games are a success, because these games are for us all.

Now, with this money for facilities here in Whitehorse, I would like to take this opportunity to ask the minister to remember that there is still a need for recreation facilities in the communities. Also, community venues do exist or have potential to exist by the time the games arrive. I would like to remind her about the Arctic Winter Games last year, in which the Village of Haines Junction participated with a venue, Mr. Speaker, which was highly successful. This kind of involvement of the communities is very much appreciated.

So, I'll be looking forward to hearing more about funding for the communities so that every person in the Yukon will have access to the best recreation opportunities that we can offer.

Thank you.

Mr. Jenkins:      I also rise to thank the minister for an addition $12-million contribution to support Yukon's bid to host the 2007 Canada Winter Games.

Much of the credit for this initiative must be paid to a former Minister of Community and Transportation Services, Mr. Bill Brewster, who made the original pitch back in 1995 for Yukon to host the games and to establish an infrastructure fund to help build the necessary facilities.

Hosting the 2007 Canada Winter Games has been an all-party event, Mr. Speaker, with the previous NDP government also showing its support for the games. I commend the current Liberal government for continuing on with this all-party tradition.

Mr. Speaker, hosting the Canada Winter Games is a major undertaking and will stretch Yukon's resources to the fullest, but I believe we can do an excellent job.

Now, in the minister's response, I would like to ask the minister to advise the House what is the threshold of financial commitment from the other parties - namely the City of Whitehorse, the federal government and the Canada Winter Games host society - for the Yukon Liberal government contributions to be made, and what is the phasing for this $12-million contribution? Will it be in the form of a lump sum or will it be spread out over a number of years?

While this is welcome news, Mr. Speaker, I must inject a note of caution. Will the city and the Yukon government have enough funding available to cover the operating and maintenance costs of running the facilities when the games are over?

Mr. Speaker, by 2007 there will likely be a Yukon Party government in office to open the games and, accordingly, I would like to thank the current minister, as well as the previous ministers, for their hard work.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Ms. Buckway:     I'm glad the Member for Klondike has his dreams to cling to, and I'm very glad that we have His Worship Mayor Bourassa, Councillor Austin, Doug Hnatiuk - and I can't really see her, but I think it's Cathy Carlyle there in the gallery with us. It's wonderful to have them here for this announcement.

Mr. Speaker, our commitment to the Canada Winter Games goes a long way toward achieving our goal of establishing a better quality of life for Yukoners. And, as I've said, supporting the Canada Winter Games supports our commitment to Yukoners to encourage active lifestyles.

The games will bring in a great deal of new economic activity to the territory. Construction jobs and jobs created by the games themselves will create an economic dividend that will keep Yukoners working, and that is a top priority for this government.

We are looking at this as a partnership with the federal government, the city, the games committee and ourselves. It is going to take all four parts of the puzzle to make the games work. By supporting the games, this government is continuing to actively address several of the priorities that we outlined for Yukoners in our throne speech of October 23, 2000: economic benefits to Yukoners, infrastucture development, and the support and promotion of healthy lifestyles.

I'm very proud that this government will play such a large part in this major event for the Yukon, and I do recognize the part that previous governments have had to play in this process as well.

Thank you.

Speaker:      If there are no further statements by ministers, this then brings us to Question Period.

QUESTION PERIOD

Mr. McRobb:      My question today is for the Minister of Renewable Resources, regarding the Yukon protected areas strategy. This morning we heard that the coalition of resource and business groups known as the group of seven has again decided to walk away from the YPAS table. This is the second time that this group has chosen to boycott this minister's own process.

Can the minister tell us what his next steps will be to bring all the players of the YPAS process together?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Yes, Mr. Speaker, I very much appreciate the question from the Member for Kluane, and I just learned this morning that the group of seven had changed their minds again, after committing to both the Premier and I that they would be there. This is a direct result of the legacy that we inherited with respect to YPAS and the abuse and interference by the politicos in the previous government that occurred in the implementation of the first exercise on the YPAS.

What are we doing, Mr. Speaker? We are listening to the PAC. They have been charged with the responsibility to forward recommendations directly to Cabinet, and that is exactly what we are doing. We are following through on our commitment.

Mr. McRobb:      Well, Mr. Speaker, the minister is out of touch, and he continues to finger point in this Legislature. When are this minister and this government going to stand up and take the responsibility of the government? They promised to fix the process. Instead, Mr. Speaker, they seem to have neutered the process.

Now, this Liberal government used YPAS as a political issue to get elected, and now they have a campaign debt to pay. They promised to fix the process; they promised to get the Chamber of Mines back to the table. The Liberals raised expectations. They politicized the process, and when they did that, they seriously jeopardized it. Is this minister still committed to unilateral action in order to live up to his promise to introduce YPAS legislation by this fall?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Mr. Speaker, the Member for Kluane recently admitted in the news that the former government had made mistakes regarding the designation of Fishing Branch. They admitted that, and we're trying to fix that. The Premier and I spent an hour and a half talking to the PAC members this morning, endorsing their efforts toward helping us fix a mess that we inherited, and we're going to continue to do that.

Unlike the previous government, Mr. Speaker, we have the courage to tackle the tough issues facing this territory. This government sees a territory where there is a balance between industry, tourism and the environment. We know that there can be balance, much more than the members opposite were aware. This government is showing leadership by attending these meetings, by being there, by answering questions, by helping wherever we can and wanting and respecting the consultation process to help us fix the process.

Mr. McRobb:      Well, Mr. Speaker, when I decided today to wear my schizophrenic Liberal tie, I didn't realize it was going to have such a resounding effect. We see the minister switching from lap dog to pit bull. Who let the dogs out, Mr. Speaker?

The Liberals made a number of campaign commitments and now they are caught in a trap they made themselves. This is their process. From day one they have sent mixed messages. They have talked about preserving YPAS; they have talked about changing it; they have talked about getting the Chamber of Mines back to the table; they have talked about unilateral action. When is this minister going to sit down with his colleague, the Minister of Economic Development, so they can get their act together and the Yukon protected areas strategy can move forward?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      I am glad the member acknowledged that he is wearing a schizophrenic tie, because it bears the bearer, as well.

I am following through on the commitment I made to my constituents when I was running for this post. It was brought up quite often, Mr. Speaker. People want the Yukon protected areas strategy in the territory. I will acknowledge the efforts of the members opposite when they did accept the protected areas strategy document. It is one of the best in the country, and everyone has acknowledged that, including the Whitehorse mining initiative.

So, we are fixing a process that was bungled. The ball was dropped by the former Minister of Renewable Resources when he didn't acknowledge that the process had been followed, when they weren't accountable, supportive or consultative. They missed steps, and people were ignored. We're fixing that, Mr. Speaker.

Question re:  Protected areas strategy

Mr. Fentie:      I have a follow-up question to the Premier in her capacity as Minister of Economic Development, on the same issue.

There is a fundamental problem here, which is the reason why the business coalition has walked away from the table again. It bears in mind the fact that there are some deep divisions in this caucus across the floor and the departments related to this matter.

The Premier has made a commitment to the business coalition, and this Minister of Renewable Resources and his department have contradicted that commitment. The Premier is the boss. The buck stops at the Premier's desk.

Will this Premier commit to sit down with her colleague, the Minister of Renewable Resources, and their related deputies and iron out the differences among themselves, the long-outstanding differences between their departments, and let's get this territory back on track?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      I am so eager to respond to these questions that I didn't let the Speaker acknowledge me. I apologize.

The member behind me, the Minister of Health and Social Services, has pointed out several times that the members opposite are excellent at putting forward smoke and mirrors. One of the smoke and mirrors that they are trying to conjure up is that there is a lack of cooperation between caucus and Cabinet, between Cabinet and caucus, and among Cabinet members and caucus members on this side.

Mr. Speaker, that couldn't be further from the truth. The Minister of Economic Development and I sit down on a constant basis, working out and acknowledging that the YPAS itself is a good thing. We are moving forward and being consultative and talking to industry. The Premier and I did sit down in the Cabinet room with those interests who walked away the first time, listened to the points, made absolutely no backroom deals, as the members opposite were so good at doing while they were in office, and we did work it out. We left the members to discuss the issue themselves. We came back into the room, and they committed to come back to the working group, Mr. Speaker, and we were expecting them today.

Mr. Fentie:      I think the problem here is the backroom deal that the Premier cooked up with the business coalition has fallen apart, and they were clear. They have walked away from the process because what the Premier committed to do did not materialize, and this minister's own department contradicted that very commitment.

Let's try this another way. At the recent business summit, the business community was clear, very clear. This economy in this territory is in crisis, and this government is making it worse. One of the lightning rods in that regard is the Yukon protected areas strategy.

Now, the Premier stated today that she's a results-oriented person. Well, the business community wants results. It wants the Yukon protected areas strategy scrapped. Is this Premier's intention to scrap the protected areas strategy?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      I just wish, Mr. Speaker, that the members opposite would have been in the room with the Premier and me, listening to the members of the public advisory committee this morning, Mr. Speaker, and they would have heard first-hand - not, just as suggested by the Member for Kluane, finger pointing. They pointed the finger directly at the previous government for the problems that we are trying to sort out now and acknowledged the good work that the Premier and I are doing in meeting with them and providing our best efforts to get them to agree.

I would encourage the Member for Klondike to encourage the group of seven, instead of continually espousing that there is no balance in the group. Well, if he is so concerned, why doesn't he encourage them to come to the public advisory committee with their direct input that is coming directly to Cabinet?

Mr. Fentie:      It's probably unfortunate that we weren't in the same room with the Premier and the minister. We might have been able to help the situation and not be at this impasse, and it's creating a serious problem for certainty in this territory. This reeks of the incompetence of the members opposite. The coalition wants a number of conditions incorporated into YPAS. They are clear. The Premier committed to them that she would address that. This minister's department and this minister contradicted that.

I ask the Premier this: will she honour her commitment to the coalition and incorporate the conditions that they so desire, so that they will come back to the strategy and we can get this thing back on track and start building this territory as it should be?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      The coalition, as we had met - both the Premier and I were in the room at the same time talking to the committee - they had committed themselves, Mr. Speaker, to come back directly and talk with the public advisory committee.

We are being open and accountable. That's something this government said it would do, and we are doing. The public advisory committee is an open and accountable process, Mr. Speaker, and the members opposite have no concept of openness and accountability. They have no concept of legitimizing and acknowledging ongoing processes. They do not understand the concept of consultation. So that is what we are doing on this side constantly. My fellow ministers, my fellow caucus members, are constantly being open and accountable.

Question re:   Protected areas strategy, public advisory committee meetings

Mr. Jenkins:      I have a question today for the Premier. Back on March 13 of this year, the Premier, in an address to the Whitehorse Chamber of Commerce, invited the group of seven coalition members representing industry leaders to return to the Yukon Protected Areas Strategy Public Advisory Committee meetings that are scheduled to resume today. This morning a spokesperson for the coalition of all the major industries in the Yukon issued a news release respectfully declining the Premier's invitation, stating that the meeting process, as it exists, will not allow any meaningful participation by economic development proponents.

Can the Premier explain to the House why, in view of the Yukon's devastated economy, she is refusing to honour her commitment to this broad coalition of industry leaders?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Mr. Speaker, the Premier is going full-tilt on honouring and fulfilling the commitments that she has made, not only to interest groups in the territory but to other locations in the territory as well. I'm glad the Member for Klondike did bring up the news release that was put out by the coalition. Right within the letter, it states, "The Yukon government has stated within the Yukon protected areas strategy that the Yukon government recognizes the importance of a resource base to the economic interest of Yukon people and respects the concepts of sustainable development."

Mr. Speaker, these members acknowledge that fact and the Premier has continually supported that notion and encourages those members to come back to the PAC to put their input directly in. If the member is so concerned, I again challenge the member to have contact with the group of seven and encourage them to include their voice in the public advisory committee process.

Mr. Jenkins:      Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government might recognize these concerns but they're not doing anything with them or about them. The spokesperson for the coalition said today that the government is reluctant to guarantee that Yukoners' concerns will be addressed effectively at these meetings, and outlined eight issues for the government to consider.

The Yukon Party will go on record as supporting all eight issues and I would ask the Premier to go on record as to what issues her government supports, if any at all.

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Mr. Speaker, if any one of the members of the coalition had attended, they would have heard directly from the Premier and I that we have not only reaffirmed our commitments to the process, but we have specifically stated that we are committed to a full and consultative process through the public advisory committee.

Mr. Speaker, another fact is that every time the coalition walks away, they increase the length of their list. We are encouraging them. There is still time to come back to the public advisory committee, and the doors are always open to any one or the whole of the group of seven to come back and directly put in to the process.

Mr. Jenkins:      Well, that's exactly the problem. The process set out by this Liberal government does not, will not and cannot address these issues. They're filtered down and vetted to nothing.

Now, this Liberal government prides itself on consultation; however, as the industry coalition has discovered, there is no guarantee that their issues or concerns will ever be considered by this government.

Can the Premier advise the House why she is catering totally to the environmentalist movement and not balancing their concerns with the legitimate concerns of business and industry, which are also struggling to keep the Yukon economy alive?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Representatives of the business community pride themselves on following through on commitments. They want the government to follow through and hold the government to following through on its commitments.

When the group of seven were discussing the issues with the Premier and me in the Cabinet room, they did present a list of five conditions at that time. The Premier was very clear that, through the open and accountable process, they were to directly submit their concerns to the YPAS Public Advisory Committee. In turn, those concerns would come directly to Cabinet.

After we discussed all the details and issues, the group of seven unanimously committed to coming back to the public advisory committee. So, I am wondering, Mr. Speaker, who let whom down on this issue? The business sector honours and respects commitment. We fully expected them to be there, following through on their commitment to the Premier and me.

Question re:  Hydrogen project, sole-source feasibility study

Mr. Fairclough:      I have a question for the Premier, Mr. Speaker. I hate having to bring the subject up again, but the Premier's answer yesterday left a lot of questions to be answered.

And I would like to thank the Premier for finally getting the documents down to us that we asked for yesterday. In the future, I hope that the government members will demonstrate openness and accountability by not giving documents to the media without also providing them to the opposition.

I'd like to ask the Premier if she has personally read all the documents in that package distributed by her chief of staff, and is she familiar with the contents?

Hon. Ms. Duncan:      Mr. Speaker, the members opposite were provided, out of courtesy - a courtesy that we often found lacking when they were on this side of the House - with information, as per a request yesterday in the House.

Now, the member opposite is clearly fishing or continuing his mudslinging expedition. If the member opposite believes he has a charge against me in some kind of a conflict, I would challenge the member opposite to put up or shut up. If the member opposite has an allegation to make, make it to Mr. Hughes. There is a process for accusing a member of conflict, and I invite the member to follow it.

Mr. Fairclough:      Mr. Speaker, the only mudslinging that's happening in this House is from the Liberal side, and it's evident on camera and in the Blues, every day. It seems to me the Liberals are hiding something and cannot answer questions directly, and I don't know why the Premier persists in making things more difficult for herself. The conflicts commissioner told her on May 25 what she needed to do to avoid being in a conflict of interest, according to the Conflict of Interest (Members and Ministers) Act and the Executive Council Office's Yukon Code of Ethics. Why did the Premier wait until November 7 to do what the conflicts commissioner told her she should do?

Hon. Ms. Duncan:      Mr. Speaker, I have fully complied with the conflicts commission and conflict legislation in this territory. If the member opposite has an allegation to make, I challenge him to make it instead of continuing the type of mudslinging accusations that they subjected other members in this House to. If the member has an accusation to make, there's a process to follow. It's outlined in legislation. I can send over a copy to the member opposite. If the member has an allegation, make it to Mr. Hughes.

Mr. Fairclough:      Mr. Speaker, it's our right on this side of the House to ask questions of the ministers who are in charge of making decisions regarding public monies, and we will. We will continue to ask those questions.

The information the Premier's chief of staff handed out to the media included a briefing note from the acting deputy minister, which is also dated November 7, 2000. This briefing note provided background information about unfulfilled contracts between the department and Total Point.

Can the Premier tell the House if that November 7 briefing note marked the first exchange between her senior department officials and the minister regarding this unfulfilled commitment?

Hon. Ms. Duncan:      If the member has an accusation to make about a conflict of interest, the member makes the accusation and makes the allegation to Mr. Hughes. That is the process to follow for conflict allegations, Mr. Speaker, and until such time as the member opposite is prepared to make such an allegation, the member should end his mudslinging and have the courage to make the accusation to Mr. Hughes. I challenge the member opposite. If the member opposite believes there has been a conflict, I challenge the member. Make the accusation to Mr. Hughes. I'm certain he'll provide the member with an answer.

Question re:  Bullying in schools

Ms. Netro:      My question is for the Minister of Education. This week, a conference on bullying is taking place. The issue of violence and intimidation is a concern for students, parents and teachers in Yukon communities and across Canada. Can the minister identify what the Department of Education is doing to eliminate bullying in Yukon schools?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Yes, I very much appreciate the question from the Member for Vuntut Gwitchin, as we both attended the evening events of last night. There was a very emotional presentation from the father of a student who was shot in the Taber school. It was very touching and gave us a lot of food for thought.

Bullying perpetrated the event that the presenter at the conference emotionally espoused. His son was a victim of a bullying victim. To answer the member, bullying and anxiety within school is not unique to the Yukon or unique to Canada or unique to the United States. It is a problem all over North America, and it is a problem that we are directly involved with here in the territory. Part of the bullying conference was to bring awareness and offer suggestions to remedy the situation, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Netro:      The impacts of bullying on an individual range from anxiety to depression and suicide. Grades can drop, and a child may drop out of activities. Children who bully have often been bullied themselves. These children may not know other ways to relate to others. Other people may not take their threats very seriously.

Will the minister identify what specific policies are in place to help teachers ensure that they recognize and support children who are being bullied?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      There are programs and initiatives already occurring within our schools in the territory. A number of caregivers whom I talked to last night indicated to me that - as we're aware, as the Minister of Health and Social Services is aware - we do lack some financial resources, but we are making best efforts with the resources that we have. The Department of Education is certainly aware of this. We do have psychologists who provide assistance wherever and whenever they can. There are a number of initiatives that are in effect within most Yukon schools. It is a problem. We recognize it as a problem, and we are making best efforts to work around the problem, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Netro:      Without clear support, some teachers may contribute to bullying by turning a blind eye to what's happening in their classes. What mechanism is in place to ensure that teachers have the skills, the mandate, and the support they need so that they are part of the solution and not part of the problem?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Again, Mr. Speaker, I thank the Member for Vuntut Gwitchin for bringing very poignant and concerned questions to the House, because they are certainly of concern to me. I am approached directly by parents whose children do suffer in one way, shape, or form from bullying, from physical to mental and, as the member had pointed out, where there may be a blind eye to an incident that has gone on in our schools. There are many, many faces to bullying, and it was even suggested to me that one of the greatest places for bullying, Mr. Speaker, is this Chamber. I think the point that was made was that bullying is not only just in our schools. It's in our homes; it's a part of our social fabric. It's part of what makes up our personal drives and ambitions and we sometimes overlook the care and giving that we should be providing to each other from time to time, Mr. Speaker.

Question re:  School playground, Teslin

Mr. Keenan:      Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the same minister, the Minister of Education, and I'm certainly looking forward to the minister making his best efforts in identifying a solution for this problem again.

Folks in Teslin have been working together - parents, teachers, children, community members at large - to ensure that their children are supervised and occupied during the whole day. You see a whole interaction of people coming to the school and participating, because we, in Teslin, are maybe suffering from some of those same initiatives. It was six weeks ago when the school council, chair requested from the department - and he did follow the process - that the playground be ploughed so that they might be able to have the children go out in more organized types of sports and let off some steam and do these different initiatives.

I'm wondering, will the minister now direct the department? Because the department is reluctant to do it, I understand. All the way from the bottom up to the top, there's agreement to do it, but when you get to somewhere in the top they say, "No, we can't do it."

So I'd like for the minister to ensure that that would happen.

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Mr. Speaker, I was unaware of that particular situation, but I do appreciate the Member for Ross River-Southern Lakes bringing it to my attention. I will certainly look into it and will discuss it, if it requires discussion, with the Minister of Community and Transportation Services to see if we can accommodate and hopefully mitigate the circumstances that led to this as well.

Mr. Keenan:      I appreciate that, Mr. Speaker, but there's a real sense of urgency to this. If we wait another six weeks - shucks, if we wait another two weeks, the way the sun is shining, there won't be a problem. The school does want to get to it.

So, I'd like to ask the minister if he could just be more focused and direct the department to do that, because, look, the sun is shining right now, the kids are getting full of energy, and sometimes they get cranky and bored. So I would very much like for the minister to ensure that this does happen. And, in the absence of it happening, would the minister then fund a contingency plan or something to find a safer place for the children to play so that, as a community, we can work together for the benefit of our children. The children are our future.

So, I would like for the minister to give me a more focused answer if possible.

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Mr. Speaker, the Member for Watson Lake posed a question in a fashion that encourages cooperation. This happened earlier in the week. The Member for Ross River-Southern Lakes is posing a question in a very similar manner. So, I have no objection at all to responding in a forthright manner and making best efforts to accommodate the request that he has made across the floor of the House.

Question re:   Protected areas strategy

Mr. Fentie:      I have a follow-up question for the Premier, and I urge the Premier to stand on her feet, engage and answer the question. It's going back to the Yukon protected areas strategy issue.

The business coalition has made it very clear to the public that they were prepared to go back to the table, work this through and create a situation that will help bring certainty to this territory around the protected areas issue. They have stated that they walked away again because commitments made to them by the Premier have been contradicted by the Department of Renewable Resources, the department that the minister sitting next to her is in charge of.

Is the Premier saying that the business coalition's statements in public are not the facts?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Again the smoke and mirrors. They are very good at it; I won't deny that. There is no dissension between the Minister of Economic Development and the Minister of Renewable Resources. We work together very well. We work in a collaborative way.

When we met the coalition members, we did indicate, quite clearly - and we did receive a commitment from those members that they would honour the process that we had structured; namely, them forwarding their points and concerns through the public advisory committee. We took them at their word, Mr. Speaker. There is also a degree of respect and trust.

We are desperately trying to establish that respect and trust. I would hope that the coalition members - the group of seven - would respect the process to the public advisory committee; that they will respect those individuals who are now there forwarding those notions, ideas and suggestions that they have contained in their letter, even though they are not there. So, there are members of industry there, Mr. Speaker, speaking on their behalf, despite what is rather a disrespect for those members speaking on their behalf.

So we are getting the message, Mr. Speaker, and we will continue to listen and get the message.

Mr. Fentie:      Mr. Speaker, there is absolutely no smoke and mirrors in this regard. I'm merely stating on the floor of this Legislature what has already been stated clearly in the public.

By having this minister's department contradicting commitments made by the Premier to the business coalition is no way, in our minds on this side of the House, a building of trust and a constructive working relationship - I ask the Premier again and I urge the Premier to stand on her feet and bring clarity to the situation. Did the Premier commit to the business coalition, or did she not, that she would incorporate the seven conditions that the coalition wanted to see in the strategy? It's a yes-or-no question.

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Mr. Speaker, it isn't a yes-or-no question, and the member opposite fully knows that.

The second point is that when the Premier and I did commit to the group of seven in the Cabinet room, collectively, in unison, and in full agreement with each other, there were only five points brought to our attention at that time. The Member for Klondike is talking about eight points now, and the Member for Watson Lake is back down to seven. Well, the true fact is, Mr. Speaker - and for the attention of the Member for Watson Lake - the group of seven presented five points in a letter, a copy of which I'm sure he has - five points. Together, the Premier and I committed that there would be no sweetheart backroom deals that got this whole process in trouble in the first place, and we did receive a full commitment from all members of the group of seven that they would be at the next public advisory committee meeting. Mr. Speaker, not only did they let us down, they let the members of the public advisory committee down.

Mr. Fentie:      Well, it's very comforting to see that the minister knows that it was only five conditions and the group numbered seven people. That's a good start.

Also, I must warn the minister, the members opposite, the Liberal government, can't continue to blame people. They're now down to blaming people driving through the territory. They have blamed everybody else. They are in charge of this process. It's their process. They have completely dismantled it. It's going nowhere.

I ask the Premier again, does she have any intention of incorporating the five conditions that the business coalition wants to see, so that they can come back to the table and get this process back on the rails?

Hon. Mr. Eftoda:      Mr. Speaker, the process is back on the rails. The public advisory committee is in their second set of meetings and we will be expecting, from the public advisory committee, not only the recommendations that come out of the committee but all the raw data will be delivered directly to my office and to the Premier's office. It will be presented to Cabinet in its entirety.

That's how this government operates, Mr. Speaker. I don't know to whom the member opposite was referring when he said "driving down the highway". Gee. Apollo 13, tune in. The thing is, Houston is grounded. Houston is here, and we know exactly what we're doing and where we're going. We will respect the advice and recommendations that we as Cabinet receive from the public advisory committee.

Speaker:      The time for Question Period has now elapsed. We will now proceed with Orders of the Day.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Ms. Tucker:      Mr. Speaker, I move that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole.

Speaker:      It has been moved by the government House leader that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole.

Motion agreed to

COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE

Chair:  Good afternoon. I will now call Committee of the Whole to order. Do members wish to take a brief recess?

Some Hon. Members:      Agreed.

Chair:  We will recess until 2:05 p.m.

Recess

Chair:  I will now call Committee of the Whole to order. We'll continue with general debate on the Department of Health and Social Services.

Bill No. 4 - First Appropriation Act, 2001-02 - continued

Chair:  I believe Mr. Keenan has the floor.

Mr. Keenan:      In Question Period, we were talking about something that was very serious to community development, to the future of the Yukon Territory and the world, and that's about school bullying. And the Minister of Education spoke about partnerships and coming together, and he suggested that there might be an active role, or some kind of a role, for the Department of Health and Social Services. I would appreciate if the minister could expand on what role the department would be playing there, in particular in the communities and if there's any functioning programming.

Hon. Mr. Roberts:     As a former school administrator, as the member opposite knows, I spent 32 years in the schools, and that was always an issue, throughout my whole career. And I definitely do agree with the Member for Ross River-Southern Lakes. I think all departments have to work on how we're going to beat this - I call it a bit of a major problem - in our communities.

I also believe, Mr. Chair, that it's very important that communities look at what they have to do, as partners. I'm hearing quite often from some people, "Well, what is the government going to do about it?" And I'm just saying to myself that government means everybody. I don't want parents telling me that the government must look after this problem. I want parents to sit down with us as government and come up with some creative solutions. So I really endorse what the Member for Ross River-Southern Lakes is saying, that we get together and work together on this very important issue.

It's just one of many, and I would like to support that.

Mr. Keenan:      Well, I appreciate that, Mr. Speaker. I take it from the minister's answer that government is willing and able to work with partnerships. I also appreciate what the minister said about how it is simply not government that must take the lead. I am very proud and pleased to be able to say, right here on the floor of the Legislature, that the community of Teslin is very much taking aggressive action - well, maybe "aggressive" is the wrong word, but certainly they are taking proactive action, and they are very much focused on it. To see the partners involved - the parents and, in some cases, extended families, not just the immediate mother and father, but those types of partnerships. The Tlingit Tribal Council is involved, and the mayor and council are involved in support levels.

I very much appreciate that the government could help facilitate that and very much be able to find ways of how to do things, and I appreciate the departmental bureaucrats having the attitude of how we can accommodate versus why we cannot do something. The situation that I described in Question Period this afternoon, to which the Minister of Education said that he would look into it - it is deeply appreciated.

So if we were able to continue to facilitate this kind of community-driven action, I feel that we would be much further ahead in defining this problem. This is an old problem, and it's a territorial problem. I'm not sure if I really have anything more to say on that. Maybe I could move on here a bit.

I'd like to just go back. Yesterday, just toward the end of the debate, when the minister and I were talking about different initiatives, we were talking about the early childhood development initiative. There are a couple of situations here that I'd like to point out to the minister that have been brought to my attention.

Now, the minister said that the $300,000 is in the general budget for this year. I would encourage the department or the minister to get that money moved over to where it should be, because certainly this money is for a very worthwhile project. Here in front of me I have the letter from the Prime Minister, in which he talked about the early childhood development program. And it's unique.

Now, I think the minister might have misunderstood my question yesterday, because the minister said it has to be for new programming, and I understand that that is not necessarily so. It could be to look at existing programs, to strengthen community. It's for strengthening early childhood development and learning and care, improving parenting and family support, promoting healthy pregnancy, birth and infancy. So there's a program there.

I also understand that it's a five-year program that is going to be $300,000 to the Yukon for each year. Yesterday I think it was told to me that it would be for one to two years.

I understand there will be escalators built into the program, and I also understand that we're supposed to have some base programming or new programming in place for September, I believe. And I'd like to ask the minister if the minister would like to further clarify that situation, if I am indeed correct.

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      For clarification, I think the Member for Ross River-Southern Lakes has pretty well put the definition on the length of time. It is a five-year plan. This year it's $288,000 to the Yukon. My understanding is that it's based on a per capita allotment. There is an escalator built in it, as the member has said, and it will be a little over $300,000 next year and in subsequent years.

The objective again is to build on some of the initiatives that the federal government is trying to promote with provinces and territories on improving the lot of our zero- to six-year-old child. That's really the major objective here, and that philosophy has finally materialized into some concrete results in the fact that, if you put the resources at the beginning stages, hopefully you're going to be spending less at the other end, when they reach the teens and adulthood.

So, that is really the objective - to look at how we can better the lot of our pre-school and some of the children who are in school but at the very beginning stages, and how we can help families.

The member opposite has also defined some of the roles that we could be utilizing the resources with, and that's looking at how caregivers are provided support or how programming that's leading to better educational opportunities could be part of the process as well. It's wide open. It can be addressed to some of the continuing programs.

Although it also very much defines it, it also should be defined with new programs, as well. It is a real combination. They have not tied one's hands with the utilization of the resource, but I think it is one that we can really build on for the future. No decision has been made at this point in time, as this is just the beginning of this fiscal year. Over time, I'm sure we will be looking at where we want to go with this.

Mr. Keenan:      Well, Mr. Chair, the minister himself - I believe it was in December on the floor of this Legislature - did put forth a concrete option for these funds. That commitment in December that the minister put forth was to put funds into the pockets of child care workers. That was a promise made on the floor of this Legislature, and I know that there were great expectations. I just heard the minister speak about the front-line workers - I guess we can say it in that way. I was wondering when these front-line workers will be able to see these benefits?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      That's another option. I believe that we wanted to ensure that we're addressing those very early years. That's one of the suggestions that has come forward. As I said, there have been no decisions made.

One of the problems that we've had with the whole issue of moving quickly on any kind of initiative is that the federal government will also be announcing ECD aboriginal programming. We are sort of waiting for those announcements to see how we might be able to work together. We've received very positive comments from First Nations. They want to work with us, because they realize that when their funding comes forward, they divide it into 14 piles and the piles are very small. There's not a lot they can do with that. They are hoping that, with a bigger pot, together we can come up with some real concrete approaches.

That is one of the reasons why we haven't gone lickety-split ahead of the game, because we believe that First Nations are very strong partners in the future of the Yukon, as well.

Mr. Keenan:      Well, I thank the minister for that, but I'm not going to let the minister off the hook quite so easily. I understand what the minister's saying, and when we have multiple jurisdictions, I guess, if you want to look at it in that manner, it does complicate it, but it could provide a better service also, if we take the time to work together. So I appreciate that.

So, I have two questions. Does this mean that there is not a commitment now or the minister is not going to honour a commitment that he made on the floor of the Legislature, or is it going to be considered one of the options at this point in time? The other question I have for the minister is on the First Nation funding. I'd like to clarify if it was from DIAND, and when do we expect that on the floor?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Thank you. I appreciate the member's question. Again, I guess, when we were coming up with thoughts and ideas - I really want to be very upfront with the member opposite about the fact that we were looking at ideas and options. We did not commit ourselves to anything at this point, because it's not for me to make those commitments. It's up to the people who are on the front line who have come forward with ideas. That's hopefully where the recommendations will come from.

I suppose, as we speak, that's happening. You know, the groups out there are talking about different ways that this could be used.

The second part of that question is regarding the First Nations and when that announcement is to happen. Our department has been in touch with DIAND as recently as last week and we expect an announcement any time, but it hasn't been made yet. I'm sure the member opposite knows how long it takes sometimes for the feds to operate and how long it takes them to come up with their announcements.

Hopefully it will be soon, because we'd like to see this program start this year, and I think it's important for us. I'll probably find out in May. I'm going to a ministers meeting in Regina, I think it is. Hopefully there will be some announcement before then, but obviously there will be some discussion around this.

Mr. Keenan:      I would like to encourage the minister, then, to - if we have the resources in general revenue - take the resources out of general revenue and put them where they belong in the Health department and to see if we can move interimly just a little bit with these dollars, because we do have the resources there now. I understand the concept of greater planning and working with partners, but the reality that is on the ground at this point in time - and again, I do take the minister back to the commitment that was made to put those funds into the place of those child care workers.

Maybe I could look at it in a different attitude. Has the minister done any number crunching as to what that cost would be on that commitment made in December?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I don't want to get into a sort of argument here about what ideas were floating out there in December. Ideas - that's what they were, Mr. Chair. They were looking at some possible ideas, looking at some ways that we could move ahead in this early childhood area. I guess my concern is that if we even came up with numbers at this point, the member opposite would say, "Well, you've already made a decision." And then the other argument would be, "Well, how come you're making a decision when you haven't really talked to the partners?"

So we're trying to keep it all sort of on an even playing field, so no decisions have been made. I think it was an idea to pursue. It wasn't meant to be, kind of, "That's the answer." It could be one of the answers and, when we move down that track, I would hope that all these partners would be making suggestions to us as to how we want to proceed.

I don't want to prejudge that, so I appreciate the Member for Ross River-Southern Lakes coming up with looking at some specifics, but I cannot answer that at this point.

Mr. Keenan:      Well, Mr. Speaker, many folks who work in the field out there are going to be disappointed when they hear that, because I remember people being ecstatic about this and people would stop me in the street and say, "Hey, look at what's happening." I do believe that, at that point in time, it was a very good thing, so I would appreciate if we could in the future be much more focused, if I could say it in that manner, so that we don't raise people's expectations.

There was a clear commitment on December 12, 2000, when the minister said - it goes on, and in the last sentence, the minister clarified and said that we're going to put the money in the pockets of those people who are most dear to our child care at this point, and they are the child care workers.

So, there has been a commitment. If the minister is reneging on that commitment at this point in time, I feel that we should have some type of communications strategy, I would say immediately, to get out to those people, so that you might be able to achieve a greater buy-in into the overall process. One of the segments the people started to think they were going to have and to receive is more or less not there at this point in time. Although there was a commitment made, it's not necessarily there at all. It's on to an option kind of thing, I guess.

So I will clarify that, in my mind and in the minds of a lot of others, there has been a clarification made or a commitment made by the minister and we will be talking about that later, I guess.

If I could move on a bit here. We talked earlier about diagnostic services for FAS and FAE and I certainly commend the department for moving in that direction and getting tools in place. But I was wondering, what is the minister really planning to do to address the need for that diagnostic service here in the Yukon? If I remember right, there is a two-year waiting list outside and, as we know, we have a great problem here with that.

So we have gone part of the way, and I was wondering when we could expect to go the rest.

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Yes, I would agree with the member opposite that FAS is a very serious problem in the north and in the Yukon. Hopefully, over time, it will be even less serious because of the actions of communities, NGO groups and, hopefully, government, which will reduce the need for those kinds of services in the future. I optimistically hope that this will be something that, in five years' time, we can say that we don't have any more FAS individuals. This is what is going to pay off.

We have a working group. And I think I shared with the member opposite who is included in that working group. It's a list about a page long. The working group is composed of people who are from the community and who work for government in different departments. The objective of the working group is to come up with ideas or thoughts or directions where we as a government should be going.

They are looking at this whole issue because of some of the work that has been done by some of our NGO groups in looking at what else we should do in our community in order to ensure that we are dealing with the problem. What they are looking at is how we can look at different diagnostic models. They are going to be coming up with, as I understand it, four or five options for us as a government. We will be reporting back with the options in early June, so I think that there's some very hard work going on right now.

I believe that, with all working groups, we have to challenge them to come up with some thoughts and ideas, and then we have to take the ideas and then look at what we as a government can do to make sure that there is progress on them. So, I am very pleased to share this with the member opposite. In the very near future, by June, we should have something at least out there for the public to look at as to what we can do for the future.

Mr. Keenan:      Well, I take particular delight in hearing that. It seems to me that we are looking to identify the issue and how we can go to it to make it better, I guess. I was wondering, though, are there any training initiatives for doctors? Are local doctors going to be a part of those recommendations? Where does the minister put training into place at this point in time?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I thank you again, Mr. Chair, for the question. I think it's much like what we're trying to do with all the crises that we're having in our society regarding recruitment for nurses, doctors, and so on. We're in the same mode with FAS. There will be some short-term goals that we can work on immediately or are already doing. There will be some medium-sized goals that we can look at as to what we can do - if we do this or do that - and then there will be some long-term goals.

Obviously, educational and professional development for our professionals is very important. As you know, many of the doctors have taken on many of the professional development processes over the last few years in order to make themselves more aware of how to identify - and many doctors admit that they need more of this. So it would all be part of that package, although it doesn't mean that we're going to wait until the package comes before we do anything. I think things are happening right now, but we want to raise the temperature in that area. So hopefully we're going to see far more happening over the next while as to what we can do to ensure that we are prepared to deal with our problems.

Mr. Keenan:      I appreciate that we have short-term, immediate, and long-term goals. That's very much appreciated.

Again, I guess I'd like to ask, now that we have the registry in place - of course, the registry is for FAS because it is a reportable condition, and it has been established - has training been planned to allow physicians to accurately use that registry, so that they do move together?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Thanks again for the question. I agree with the member opposite that this is ongoing. I think the registry, when it was first established - a protocol was put in place by our chief medical officer at that time, Dr. Timmermans, and Dr. Bousquet, who worked with Dr. Timmermans on it. They used that protocol to inform, or to give professional development to, all the doctors as to how and what the identification procedures would be.

Now, the educational process as to where you continue, that is the objective here of our working group, to work on that identification. That's for statistical purposes, and then work from the situation of knowing what our concerns are, and then how we build into our system the protections for, number one, preventing the problem, and number two, looking after the individuals who are already afflicted with this particular problem.

So I think a variety of things are happening, and this is what this working group is to do. It's to be kind of the guide so that we can move on and not just say, "We've done one thing and we're finished, so we don't have to do anything else."

It's kind of an ongoing process, and hopefully we're going to see new ideas and new thoughts come back to us all the time.

Mr. Keenan:      I certainly appreciate the approach that the minister is taking on this, and talking about the working group and diagnosis, and having the immediate, the short term and the long term.

I'd like to ask the minister if the minister would be able to apply that same philosophy to what we were talking earlier, the early childhood development.

Now, there has been a commitment made on the floor of this Legislature. If we do have a process for initiatives within diagnosis in the working group, could we maybe apply that same philosophy of short term, immediate and long-term goals into early childhood development and put some of that money into the pockets where the minister said it should go?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I would expect that, if we have a five-year target here of support coming from the federal government, that would be the objective, to look at sort of the short term and the most immediate and then the medium and the long term, and then look at the end of the target.

As we well know, when the federal government does things and we don't prepare for it, then guess what? We are left holding the bag, I guess you would say - and you can literally use that - and it's not a bag of money either. It's often an empty bag. So, what we have to do is ensure that we are planning for the eventual resuscitation of any of these programs, if that is when their target time is, and not hope with our arms crossed and our fingers crossed that they are going to continue it. I think that a lot of things can happen in five years.

I would agree that that is a good move in looking at short-term, long-term and medium-sized goals. Hopefully those groups that will be bringing forth their recommendations - that is the kind of planning that they will be doing.

Mr. Keenan:      Yes, I remember so often in my career of governance and - you know, I think that is going on close to 16 or 18 years that I have been involved in this. And for that number of years, I used to think that these pilot projects were great, such wonderful things, because they give you a chance to express yourself and look at new ways of doing things. I heard the minister speak of the Health minister, Allan Rock, and I will never forget Allan Rock, as the Justice minister at the time, telling me, as the chief representative as the Tlingit First Nation, along with the elders there, that we were the prototype of aboriginal justice. We were that ship and, "We are going to work with you." Well, that really didn't ever come about.

I started to take more of a negative look at it. I decided to take a different approach to issues, so that when the folks within the federal departments came and said, "We have the resources to do this," I tried to get them to step outside the box. I think the Member for Klondike talked yesterday about stepping outside the box. I encouraged them to step outside the box so that we didn't classify it as a pilot project, because I agree with what the minister is saying. The feds will promise; it's a lot of times politically driven on a situation that's immediate, and then they move on and leave us holding that bag.

I appreciate exactly what the minister is saying. I'd appreciate it if the minister could move forward on that process he's talking about. We know what the goals are but let's put it into a process of five years and I'm sure that, with good lobbying and me working with the minister to ensure that these things happen, we can make good things happen.

I think I heard the minister say in the House that we're going to be sending around 45 or 44 people, I can't remember how many, to the FAS conference that's coming up in April. I was wondering about the people attending. I'm hoping that there are physicians in that group, that there are front-line caregivers in that group and that there are professionals, and that it's not just driven by the department, if we have to reach outside.

Can the minister clarify that for me, please?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I appreciate that question. I will be attending that conference because, as the host next year, it's important for us to extend the invitation for them to come north.

We're very pleased to be able to do this as a government. We really believe that if we're going to involve and empower people in the future in this particular area of FAS, we must go to these conferences to learn new ideas. Some of the best people in Canada - some of the best possibly in North America - will be there to share their ideas and things that they're doing.

Also, we'll be sharing with the group some of the things we're doing that are probably fairly unique as well. So, it's a two-way street.

We have approximately over 40 at this point. The last count was 44. They are coming from the communities. Nobody is being invited. We're getting the information out there that they can get some kind of financial support. To my understanding, we have many applications coming from the communities and from the City of Whitehorse.

We hope doctors get involved and take part in this, as well. It's wide open. They have front-line workers, advocacy groups. It's really broad, and we can provide the member opposite a legislative return on it if the member so wishes. Obviously I think it's going to be rather exciting. I've even been asked to address it for a short time. So they're really showing partnership across western Canada.

Mr. Keenan:      No, I don't think a legislative return is necessary. I think the minister has been answering the question.

I would just like to suggest to the minister, though, that I know we have processes that are out in the communities to enable people to come, and I was wondering if it is at all possible that the minister could just send a direct invitation to a doctor who is in the field, just to let them know that, "Hey, we're there with you, we understand what you do, we understand how you work, and doggone it, would you be able to come with us in this and to be able to learn?" Would the minister be able to look at that target so that we do have the right people in place? That's one question.

I do appreciate what the minister is saying about conferences. I know that conferences, if you have a ministry as large as the Health minister's and that of other ministers - there's a great deal of time spent going to conferences by ministers. I, for one, have always found them very worthwhile. I found them at times - well, who wants to leave the Yukon in the summer? Nobody, but I found them very worthwhile. I appreciate what the minister is saying, because I, too, was very successful as a minister in bringing conferences to the Yukon Territory to help share our initiatives and what we have. I guess I couldn't get any bragging rights for it, because I think what really drew people to the Yukon was the Yukon itself, not the minister's invitation.

But I would appreciate it if the minister would be able to offer that invitation. I know that within the department there are different folks who know. So would the minister be able to do that? And I see that we do have an armload of invitations going out the back door right now, so I appreciate that.

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I'm meeting with the YMA executive next week, as a matter of fact, and I'll definitely underline that we would like to see some doctors attend. That would be very positive. Maybe there are some attending - I really don't know who is attending and who's not.

As far as trying to look at how we work together, I think it's going to take a lot of honest discussion and a lot of openness. If we're not doing things, hopefully through the working group we can come up with some better ways of trying to approach some of these problems.

Mr. Keenan:      I accept the minister's direction on that.

Within Social Services we have a program objective, and I know you have the objectives in front of you. I did bring objectives forward to the Minister of C&TS, and I want to seek clarification.

Now, it says, "to ensure the provision of an integrated range of appropriate services to seniors, persons with disabilities, and the poor, so that they can achieve the greatest degree of independence, well-being and self-reliance as possible."

I guess I could ask the question of the minister: does he think the program objectives of this particular department are being met, and I'm sure that the minister is going to say, "Yes. Absolutely." But I would also like to think that an increase in social service rates would be supportive of these program objectives. Would the minister agree?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I really appreciate the Member for Ross River-Southern Lakes pointing out the real objectives of the Yukon Liberal platform here. We underlined at least two issues here on income assistance to improve on what I believe is very important for people on SA, ensuring that we help the poor, that we provide the greatest degree of independence by providing additional support for those mothers, or those single fathers, who are home with children from the ages of zero to six - up until that change, it was zero to two.

So, hopefully that is going to give them some security about family rearing. Of course the real issue here is self-reliance and how we really believe that most people are on SA because it's a last resort for many people. They want to be self- reliant.

So that was the reason for additional dollars in the whole area of providing them with the opportunity to keep more money rather than having to forego it if they are out there looking for a job or if they are out there working. For singles, we added another $50 a month, and for families there is another $100 a month. So we are very pleased to be able to do that. Hopefully that addresses what the member opposite is asking.

If the members are asking across the board - I guess, from our perspective, we are trying to help that self-reliance, we are trying to help that independence. That is why we as a party and as a government responded in that way.

Mr. Keenan:      What can I say? I guess we are not going to be meeting mutually on this, and I think that we could be meeting mutually on this because, certainly, the budget was adopted as is. You said that it was going to be implemented as is. Now I am talking of last year's budget, and we know that here in the House. Then it was okay to say something at one time, but when you have the chance to change it, we did. Now, I know that we are going to go back and forth on this, and I choose not to go back and forth on this. I think that the minister understands my point, and I understand the minister's point. I don't think we are so terribly far away, either.

So I have a question and I have an invitation. The question for the minister: would this increase - and we know what I am talking about - be reflected in a capital budget or an O&M budget?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I'm not totally clear, but I'll try to answer it. If I'm not giving the right answer, the member opposite can get back on his feet and ask again.

I believe that any SA rates are usually in the O&M and not the capital. That's sort of my response, but if I'm not answering the question, maybe the member could clarify that.

Mr. Keenan:      No, thank you, Mr. Chair. That certainly answers the question, because the next statement is an invitation. Now, I know the minister likes to be out in a canoe. I, too, love to sit beside a singing paddle, hear it move and sing along with it. We all know that great spirits and great revelations can come to us at that point in time.

I just happened to run into the minister, the Commissioner and a couple of their buddies at Johnsons Crossing, nibbling on a cinnamon bun. They were off to enjoy my territory down there. They were going to Morley Bay. I gave them a couple of pointers, and the minister didn't need any pointers. Away they went and I think they had a heck of a good time.

I would invite the minister to come with me and take that type of a trip - just a day trip. We don't want to make it too long, but we want to make it an atmosphere of coming together, because I want to get into the minister's head and I want the minister to get into my head, because we both represent the people. We both absolutely do. Perhaps if we did that, at least I could get a deeper understanding.

I guess what I'm reaching for is a deeper understanding. Is that a point of Nirvana, because that is where I want to go.

Some Hon. Member:      (Inaudible)

Mr. Keenan:      Well, we'll induce some of that oxygen through a paddle instead of through a bike or a jog.

So I would like the minister to do that, and maybe after that we will be able to have something that we can move forward on, because we will have a deep philosophical discussion. I know that. And we will respectfully listen to each other. I'm hoping that my influence will be enough so that we can ensure that this rate would be included in the O&M budget for next year. The reason I was asking is because the capital budget is coming in the fall. In that case, we would have to go paddling in June, but now we can go paddling any old time of the year. That's an invitation to the minister.

If the minister wants to answer that, well, he certainly can. If the minister doesn't want to answer that, he certainly can, also.

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I know from the members opposite that there's a lot of room on that side, and if that's an invitation to join the other side, well, it's not in the cards, but thanks for the invite.

If the members are offering me to ride or have a paddle with the member opposite, right on, but it's reciprocal. I'll let you paddle in my canoe as well. I believe we can have some good sharing and I'm always open to that. I spend quite a bit of time - as much as I can - out in the wilds, if you want to call it that - actually, probably the wilds are more downtown here than they are out there. But I really appreciate that invitation and maybe I'll take the member up on that in the coming summer.

Mr. Keenan:      Yes, Mr. Chair, I do believe that, with the exception of maybe three, four or five people in this room, this is very much a monument of Yukon wildlife. I'll agree with the minister on that.

Certainly I would like to do that with the minister. It doesn't matter whose boat I climb into as long as it's a good, safe boat and I get the chance to listen and to speak. That's good. So, I'll take the minister up on bringing his canoe down and we can do that. Maybe we can have a deeper understanding of the joy of getting to know each other a little more, but not simply that joy, but to exchange ideas for the people we represent.

Two in a canoe is fine, I believe, unless the Minister of Tourism wants to play lifeguard and wear her swimsuit, well, then, maybe that's a different option, but at this point in time, two will do.

If I may move on, I guess, again, it's to do with the program objectives, and it's the same objective. I don't want to read it again, but it speaks to integrating and assisting so that they can achieve the greatest degree of independence, well-being and self-reliance. I don't think that that has been achieved if we're housing people in a couple of our local drinking establishments here. I really don't think that that objective has been met. That's not a question. I guess I could phrase it as a question.

Does the minister believe that that objective is being met by putting folks in these drinking establishments? I spoke yesterday on this briefly, and the minister said that it's an open-ended contract. And I understand what the minister said when he said "open-ended." I understand, but I think to further meet that particular objective we should look at alternatives. Again, I'd like to see if the minister agrees.

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Mr. Chair, we tried to be very careful about - what the member opposite is inferring is that possibly they're drinking hotels. We're not interested in that, Mr Chair. We're interested in family hotels, hotels that many tourists and locals use.

The objective here is that we do have a year-long contract with these hotels, so it's a guarantee. As I shared with the member yesterday, it's not the answer. We know that, but, you know, the shelter wasn't the answer, either. So I think what this does is that it accelerates how we as a community have to put our heads around this and come up with some permanent solutions.

As I shared with the member opposite yesterday, as well, that's why the federal government has put some dollars into this, so that we can look at some long-term solutions. And this is going to really, I think, put the pressure on our homelessness group to really look at some long-term solutions. So that was the objective.

Even in the shelter, there was no drinking allowed there at all. I mean, if you were intoxicated, you weren't allowed in the shelter. So my understanding is that those were the rules. So when they come to ask for a voucher to go into the hotel, I'm sure the same conditions will be there. The objective here is not to create a reputation that we can't continue this with our hotels. If we have this kind of a problem, the hotels will not negotiate with us because they don't want those problems, either.

Mr. Keenan:      It would be helpful if the minister would provide to me - and it doesn't have to be a legislative return, just a simple letter or something will do - through the mail, which establishments we are using, so I don't have to name the establishments here. I think that my information might be different from what the minister is saying. So if the minister could do that, I would appreciate that.

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      We would be able to do that.

Mr. Keenan:      Thank you, Mr. Chair. We all know that the NGOs do very important work on behalf of government. Government contracts these NGOs to provide the stable environment. What the NGOs need is to be able to provide stable funding to allow them to plan very effectively. So I would like to ask the minister if the NGOs have received their multi-year funding agreements and which ones?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Yes, we have moved ahead on that, just as the past government did. We believe that that is the only way that NGOs can have sort of a guarantee of what their programming should be, at least for the next three years.

Mr. Keenan:      I would sure appreciate it if the minister would be able to send, by mail, the list of the NGOs and the commitments. Is that possible?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Yes, we can do that, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Keenan:      The restructuring of services to persons with disabilities has resulted in respite and residential care becoming a responsibility of family and children's services, while the case management remains with the adult services. I'd like a report. Has this restructuring improved the delivery of the service to persons with disabilities, or is there a certain struggle for some folks? So the question is if this restructuring has improved the delivery of services to persons with disabilities?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      It's fairly early right now. The change was made six months ago, and the objective, again, was to provide better services for our clients. By moving the residential component over to family and children's services, it was to become more efficient in how we could provide services for those unique needs of many of our clients. Hopefully, at the next budget time, we'll be able to tell the member opposite whether that has improved our service. If it hasn't, then I don't know why we've done it, so I ask the same question but, obviously, that was the reason why we did it.

Mr. Keenan:      I appreciate that, and we will get that information later on because, certainly, we're here to improve service to those who need it the most, and not to make it cumbersome.

I've been led to believe that it might be a bit cumbersome. If the minister could take that for what I've said and what it's worth, and look into it a bit, then maybe we can talk about it later in the fall, because, with any luck, we'll both survive our river trip and we'll both be here.

Yesterday I spoke about the plan to ensure that child care was available in the communities, and I might have confused the minister. It was getting late in the day there, but I am speaking about just child care. Several of the communities, again, rely on family day homes, and they may not have a backup option if the caregiver is ill, has an emergency or leaves the community.

Is there any plan to address those needs? It's very specific to that issue.

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Seeing that this is a problem - particularly in small communities because they may only have one day home operator and if that person becomes sick, it is a private business. So for us as government to get involved, other than through the application of subsidies and so on that we provide for our day home and daycare people, I don't know how much more we could do.

I hear what the member is saying, but I'm not too sure how far we could get involved in that. We're open to suggestion, I suppose, and if it's practical, fine.

Mr. Keenan:      If the department is open to suggestion on that, I'm sure we will be able to provide a suggestion after we talk to the folks who have been raising this issue with me. So we will be able to further clarify that for the minister.

Well, we're getting there. I have a couple more questions, and I appreciate how we can work effectively here.

In Health services, we do have program objectives. We don't have to immediately go flipping through the program objectives, but we do anyway.

It speaks about good health, and, as we know, it's a balance of prevention and treatment. And, as we know, prevention includes public education, active living, immunization, support for the individuals, support for the families. I mean, we have talked about that quite a bit here in the last couple of days.

Would the minister be able to identify the focus of his department's health prevention policies? Again, it's to identify the focus. If the minister is not prepared to stand on his feet in the House to do that, I would certainly accept information by way of letter and/or legislative return, but it's very important to us that we are able to get a deeper understanding of where the minister feels the minister would like to go. Is that possible?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I appreciate the Member for Ross River saying that we could give him a list of all of the things we are doing. Just to mention a few: healthy families - that is definitely a prevention program; the book that was tabled yesterday; the statement that we had about healthy sexualiy is a very important one. It is really a response to the high rate of chlamydia that we have in the territory. We have an accident/injury profile as well that is in the works. I suppose our report card is another way of trying to look at prevention. I guess my whole spiel, as the Member for Watson Lake likes to tell me from time to time, about running and hiking and all of these things, is great for the body. The active living model that the Member for Ross River-Southern Lakes started is really one of our biggest thrusts in, hopefully, prevention. Hopefully we will spend more time in the next few years really profiling that particular issue. I will provide the member with a list.

And the FAS one - I think the most important one is the ads in the newspaper and on the TV about FAS/FAE where you have this fading in of the woman who is talking about how they shouldn't drink and have children, or if they are pregnant, they shouldn't be drinking. I think you might have seen it on TV. It is very powerful. I thought that was one of the best ones. As a matter of fact, it's being used in other parts of western Canada because it was so well done. It was done here in the Yukon. This is the FAS promotion on drinking and having children - you know, trying to ensure that if you are going to have children, don't drink. The Northwest Territories has a lot of incentives here too, so we try to share them back and forth.

We'll provide a return for the member, or a list of them.

Mr. Keenan:      I very much appreciate that, because this is a very deep and profound subject when we start to talk about prevention. It's the government's policy priorities in Health, and I would also like the minister to inform us of how those policies support treatment services. It's the whole ball of wax, so if they could be included in there, I would certainly appreciate that.

For the physicians and nurses - they are essential in the early diagnosis and treatment of health problems. I certainly feel that $140,000 is not enough, based on the competition we have. We don't have to go too deeply into this. And I know he spoke of phase 2, but does the minister have the support of caucus to be able to - now that we've established a process and put some seed money into it, it is likely to be a good process - go to bat for more dollars, and does he have caucus support for this very important initiative?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I categorically would have to say yes. That's the reason why we're moving down that track right now, because we know the problems we're experiencing in our communities. We really want to try to get there before we have a major disaster. That's why we're moving it into phases. We had phase 1, and now we're in phase 2. There's going to be phase 3 and we will carry on and on, because I don't think this will stop until we've filled all the demand for health care people. That will take some time.

Mr. Keenan:      Okay, so I take it that the answer is that it's subject to budgetary process and whatnot. I see the minister nod, yes. The minister did say that he has commitment from caucus or direction from caucus to move in that direction, so I eagerly look forward to debating the budget next year and talking about not only the process, but also the dollars and resources that are included in there.

Would the minister provide the terms of reference for the Yukon Nursing Advisory Committee, please?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Could the member please repeat that? I didn't quite hear.

Mr. Keenan:      I'm sorry. Would the minister provide the terms of reference for the Yukon Nursing Advisory Committee?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Thanks. Yes, the YRNA are doing the terms of reference along with the health department, so as soon as they're complete, we'll make sure that the member gets a copy.

Mr. Keenan:      I know that we've talked about the current plan for the next stage of recruitment and retaining medical personnel. That's phase 2, I take it? Okay. And we did speak a little bit about that yesterday. I do extend my olive branch to the minister - not in an all-party committee or anything like as such, but if the minister wishes any of my - I hate to use the word "expertise," but certainly my ideas and my knowledge, I'd be willing to work at that level. We've got to get this out of the politics and recognize that we're in competition with the world, and, yeah, the Yukon has much more to offer Malaysia, but some of these folks have already been to the Yukon and haven't been to Malaysia, so there's a drawing card. So I'd appreciate it if we could move in that direction.

Is there a plan in place to ensure that nurses who would like access to professional development can find someone to backfill their positions? Is that all part of the process?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Thanks again for the question. That is a problem, as the Member for Ross River shares. Because of the shortage, and, of course, we want to encourage professional development, and nurses want to take professional development because they want to be ready with the most modern and updated skills, yes, it is. There is no easy solution to that, but we're trying to encourage professional development; on the other hand, we don't want to abandon any of the health care position, either, because we know we're trying to juggle. It's a real hot ball either way. There's no immediate answer, but we're encouraging it. The idea is to get people who are willing to come north and spend some time here, maybe for two, three months, four months, and we do have people who want to do that. They'll come for two or three months and then head off and go somewhere else. We have a lot of these people who like moving around, and we're trying to attract them, as well.

Mr. Keenan:      I thank the minister for that, and I recognize the challenge that the minister has in fulfilling the obligations. I'm just going to step laterally here a moment and talk about the doctors because of the situation I alerted the minister to, I think it was last week, about the impending shutdown of the surgical unit. It was a horrifically scary thing, I'm sure, for all of us in this room. I'm so glad that we've been able to move beyond that now, and we're doing things, I guess - and this is not to be offensive, but it's by a by-gosh and by-golly approach at this time.

I'm wondering if the minister - again, it's an idea, I guess. But when we get into our meeting with the Yukon Medical Association and the professionals - I say "we", but I mean the minister, and when the minister gets into that meeting - if we might be able to ask, or form a concerted approach, to move further down the planning road, I guess, of six months. The gentleman - I believe, a surgeon - who wished to take his holidays, he needed that holiday, obviously, to get away and to recuperate, and I'm thinking that, as an interim step, it might be possible to do that.

So would the minister be able to let all the professionals know that we wish to work with them, and that this might be one way - very short term - to move ahead. Would the minister do that?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Yes, we know that these can be problems.

Spring in the Yukon is always a very interesting time, because sometimes little things become huge things. And, really, there were no things there. I've been living here long enough that I know that.

The members from a variety of parts of the Yukon know this very well. I don't know if it's the winter blues that are finally shaken off and we're getting into a little bit of sunshine, but we do have good connections and good relationships with our health care people.

Of course, they want to solve these problems as much as we do, because it reflects on them as well. We do have a schedule from our chief surgeon right now, and it is filled until next October. It's a full schedule. Sometimes you can have accidents, or people have emergencies and are not able to come in or something, and that may be a problem. So I wouldn't want to say it's absolutely guaranteed forever because anything can happen, especially in the specialist areas. As we know, these are very highly trained people and there are not a lot of them, so sometimes there could be a problem. But there doesn't seem to be a problem at the current time nor in the future, at this point. Everything seems to be working out well.

Mr. Keenan:      I recognize the minister's challenge and I'd certainly be willing to do anything I can to help.

Many services are not available in the communities and they require trips to Whitehorse. Does the government have a support policy that will ensure equality of service for all Yukoners? If the government does not have this policy of support for equality of services, would the minister consider one?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      There are probably two phases here. Emergencies, of course, are dealt with immediately wherever they come from. I don't think it matters. As a matter of fact, that's why we have medevacs - if they're really emergencies. If it requires a specialist service that is non-emergency, then they are referred by their GP and they go on a list. Based on my understanding, if it's not an emergency, it's kind of a triage approach - again, that big word "triage", the one I learned when I first took on this position. It's a consultative approach, and if it means they need some help within a matter of months, then I'm sure they're upped on the list. If it's just a matter of needing an investigation or a look at, then obviously they go on the list and they have to take their turn like everybody else. Specialists come from outside. Some of them come every two or three months and stay for a week or 10 days. So there are various ways of doing it.

Mr. Keenan:      Thank you for that, Mr. Chair, I understand what the minister is saying.

I'd like to move on to communicable diseases. They are predicted to certainly increase in all areas. I certainly understand that we do have a tool. I haven't had a chance to look at it. I would be a big fibber and full of beans - well, maybe "beans" isn't such a good word around here anymore. This is a tool for those type of diseases that are sexually oriented. Does the minister have a plan? What is the current plan to address the education, diagnosis and treatment for all communicable diseases, because we know that some diseases are coming back.

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I think that we in the Yukon are very fortunate in having very highly competent people in our communicable disease unit. Because we come from many parts of the world in the Yukon - I think that you can talk to every second or third person and they could tell you that they come from a different part of Canada or a different part of the world. We are very fortunate to have a lot of people who come from a variety of places. So it is very important that, even with tourists and so on, that we are on top of all of these issues. They are very competent in sharing that nothing gets away on us.

I agree with the member opposite that there are some recurring diseases. For example, TB - so far, because of the hard work of our communicable disease unit, we have been able to keep that in sort of a reasonable check, I would think.

I don't know the specifics. I am just saying that we haven't heard anything major out there from our observations, and hopefully we never do. That means that our communicable disease people are working very hard to ensure that we are there before anything does happen. So, I don't know if that answers the question, but I am assured that we are on the right track.

Mr. Keenan:      No, that certainly answers the question. I'm not on a fishing trip here or anything like that. I am just here to get information so that I can provide it to others and help promote what we're doing here in the Health department. That's how I see my job here, anyway. I like to keep it focused on that.

Yesterday, or the day before - I'm not quite sure - we were talking about regional services and the process of identification of a new and improved delivery of service in, say, Teslin, and whether there is a need for a health centre in Tagish and whatnot.

I would like to ask the minister if he would just give me that blurb again, because I just don't have it in my head here. It's not for anything other than to ensure that people do have a process they can use if they feel there is a weakness in a regional service.

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I appreciate the opportunity to respond to that. I think this is a very proactive approach toward communities taking ownership. It's a very proactive program where communities are really looking at what their needs are. I would recommend and suggest that if there are communities out there that are looking at their health care and their particular circumstances for the future, they contact the government so they can sit down with the department and strategize on how they can pull the citizenry of that particular area together and look at where they want to go in the future. Because that, to me, is long-range planning. It's not a knee-jerk thing. It also gives government the chance and opportunity to prepare for the future.

So, I really encourage all members to get those messages out there. I think that developing a community plan is very important. We are currently doing that in Haines Junction. My understanding is that we've done one in Teslin. We've got one in Mayo. There might be one in Faro. We're not sure.

Some Hon. Member:      (Inaudible)

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I think Teslin was done a year and a half ago. It had the same type of input. It was a community-driven activity with the department.

Every time we do a community plan, we learn something new and something different as to how to approach it for the next community, so we build on them. It's not like it's a set plan and we go in and imprint it on Mayo or we imprint it on Haines Junction. The one in Haines Junction will reflect the community of Haines Junction and try to look at what their long-term needs are.

Mr. Keenan:      Thank you, I understand, and I will have a chat with the community about that, because I think maybe somebody got left out of the loop there, but it's nobody's fault, I don't think, other than that person or individual.

So, I'll take that information back, I'll let them know that there is a process and that they can talk directly to the minister, and if the minister would give me his private number, I'll ensure that they get it. I know the minister's not going to go for that one, so I'll move on.

I just have a few more questions on the alcohol and drug secretariat here, so I guess I'm putting my folks on notice who are listening in the back rooms there that if there's anything further that should be addressed, it should be addressed quickly.

On the alcohol and drug secretariat, the minister spoke about the recruitment process, I think, on the floor here. I think it was just yesterday, but to reiterate, would the minister confirm that it could be possible that within the next month to six weeks we will have an executive director?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      We're very hopeful, Mr. Chair. We're very hopeful that this can happen. I believe, personally - this is my personal observation - that we should have done this six months ago, but then, again, we can't do everything at once. So, I would agree with the member opposite, the sooner, the better.

Mr. Keenan:      So I take it that it could be within the next four to six weeks then? Okay, thank you. I see the minister nodding his head, yes.

Does the minister have the terms of reference and the mandate for the alcohol and drug secretariat at this point in time, and if so, may I have a copy, please?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I believe that there are two things that we could do. One is the job description. I think I shared that with the member yesterday. It's about a four-pager. I don't know if the member would like a copy of that, but it's very complete as to what our expectations are, so anyone who takes this job on knows exactly what we're expecting.

We also have the drug and alcohol report, which is going to be sort of the bible as to where we want to go in the future, and that's just, again, the opener to where we want to go. Obviously we're going to be working with communities, and hopefully the CEO, the executive director, will be sort of driving the road map of how we proceed.

So, that's sort of the backdrop of it. We don't want to be too ironclad as to, you know, dotting every i and crossing every t. There has to be a little bit of flexibility, but I think we've given a lot of guidance and a lot of direction there. So if the member opposite would like me to give him a copy, yes, I'll do that - make sure you get a copy, particularly of the advertisement, because it's very complete.

Mr. Keenan:      Can I have one final question, because I don't see anybody stampeding into the House here for new information.

In Carcross - alcohol and drug services in the Yukon Territory, again, it's kind of an old situation where the feds came in with NNADAP programs, et cetera. In a lot of cases, it maybe just simply muddied the waters, or made it harder to focus. Then some folks get tools and initiatives, and some didn't, and there are expectations of sharing, and it just sort of goes around and around. This could be bringing some type of solidity to the process, so folks could know.

I'd like to speak about the Don't Fence Me In Society in Carcross. I've met with the proponents. I guess it kind of hurts me a little bit personally when I think of this, because one of the folks who worked in that was a former chief of the Kwanlin Dun, and she is no longer on this world, and she did so much good work out there, in terms of influencing young people and older people, because it's certainly not a problem that is an affliction of just an age group.

They have some good ideas and they have been out there struggling and working. I have sent them all the information I have. I have sent them different avenues where they might go, and what this Liberal government has put into place for those initiatives. They're working in partnership with the federal program. I can't quite remember the name of that federal program, but they're working in conjunction with the federal program. I think it's through the Aboriginal Healing Foundation, and the Aboriginal Healing Foundation might be able to provide - and it might be vice versa - the O&M and not the capital. They would be looking, I think, to the Yukon Territory to help provide the capital. And if they can do this, we could have something up and running as early as next year - a year, or 12 or 14 months away from now as I speak.

It's that type of coordination that's required for this partnership-driven process to be able to do that, and I would really like to see that happen in a light where - of course, it's partnership-driven, but it has to be driven in a light where it's facilitated a bit.

I was wondering if the department could - I'm not asking for the department to slam-dunk it either. I'm not asking that. But I'm asking the department to maybe work with some of those proponents or the new person from the ADS. Is that possible so that we might be able to not have anything lingering in limbo and be able to have it moved expeditiously? Could I get an answer from the minister on that?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      The Member for Ross River-Southern Lakes has put his finger or his hand or both his hands on the problem that I have heard from community after community, from First Nations, from individuals here in Whitehorse. They are saying that we need to have a collective approach toward how we deal with drugs and alcohol. Of course, that was the whole objective of the review - to look at what we were doing as a department and then really try to address how we as a department can work with the community. I've heard from First Nations exactly what the Member for Ross River-Southern Lakes talked about. They have said that NNADAP is kind of here and there and not there, and they're feeling very frustrated because there is no training program, it's not ongoing, it's inconsistent.

I believe that once we have this in place - I know that we put a lot of trust in and have expectations of this new CEO or this new executive director. But again, we are looking for somebody who can come up and work, or somebody within, if that is where they come from, who has some of those skills to really pull all of these partners together. We try to do this with every group or every committee or every NGO group. I mean, that is what our department is all about - trying to empower, to enhance, and to work with them.

I have had quite a few talks with the Champagne-Aishihik Healing Foundation proponents, trying to work with them and build together, because we know that the problems are common.

The real short answer to what the member is asking would be yes, that is really what we want. We want to collectively work together. If that is not the goal, then I think we are all going to fail again.

Mr. Keenan:      Last statement: the program objective is to provide territory-wide leadership for alcohol and other drug addictions, prevention and treatment services for the health, safety and productivity of all Yukon residents. What a wonderful objective.

Whoever this new person is is going to have to hit the ground with Nikes on or running shoes, for sure, because there is definitely a lot of work that is out there. There are timeframes that are different from the federal programs and the territorial programs and there is a lot of coordination that has to be done.

So I appreciate what the minister has said. I would appreciate if the minister could pass on to the proponent, as they jump off the airplane or out of the bus or wherever they come from, that part of the marching orders would be to contact Shirley and Darrell Beattie of the Don't Fence Me In Society and find a way that we might be able to achieve greater goals for the people who are affected by this illness.

I have no further questions at this point in time for the minister, and I thank the minister for working with me in this manner.

Mr. Jenkins:      Mr. Chair, while we're on the issue of drugs and alcohol and the respective services, one of the initiatives that was very much supported by the Liberals in opposition was the Crossroads facility - in fact, so much so that they tabled a petition, wanting it to be brought back. Is this type of a facility - a long-term, extended care facility, in-house facility - being looked at again, or are we going to hide behind this new drug and alcohol secretariat? Just where are we going on this initiative?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Yes, I think, again, the Member for Klondike has put his finger on a very important issue. The whole idea of the report was to look at those things that we were doing well and at the things that we weren't doing so well. We obviously know that that was one of the criticisms of the report, and I would expect that, once we've moved on with hopefully our new executive director, that's going to be a point to address, because we know that has also been a criticism within the community. So for me to say, well, yes, it's going to happen, that would be prejudging my own bias. But I think, obviously, there are some questions out there and some answers that are already coming to the table that are going to be areas that we want to work on.

Mr. Jenkins:      Well, let's go about this a little bit differently. After the drug and alcohol secretariat is set up, will their mandate be to bring forward and address all the initiatives in the report that was done by the Alberta organization that was hired by this Liberal government to oversee this area in the Yukon?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Yes, that's the whole objective. That was going to be sort of - I mean, we have a lot of good things in place already, a lot of good things work with alcohol and drug services. We're not going to be throwing out things that work. I mean, we have a very effective force doing very positive things.

We now are saying we need to take a little bit of a different direction, and we're going to utilize all those good things that work and build on them with some of the suggestions and recommendations, so that'll be coming to caucus and Cabinet.

We want the communities to be involved - we've said that all along. We want their involvement in this process because, if it doesn't come from the community and front-line people, it isn't going to work. We know that that has been the problem in the past with any kind of program. You impose a program, it's there for whatever time those people are there and, when those people are gone, the program leaves.

I've seen this in my career, over and over again, where, if it's not owned by the people who are driving it and who are sustaining it, then it won't carry on.

Mr. Jenkins:      Well, we're quite far along in the creation of the alcohol and drug secretariat, and there must be terms of reference established by the government as to how this arm's-length organization is going to function - there must be.

Could the minister table a copy of the terms of reference of this drug and alcohol secretariat, as to how it's going to function?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I just want to correct one thing - it's not an arm's-length secretariat. It's very much part of government, and we want to be very cautious about arm's-length groups at this point, because we really believe that we have to work with a wholesome attitude in looking at the problems. Yes, I'll be able to share with the member opposite, as I shared with the Member for Ross River-Southern Lakes, the advertisement and employment opportunity that's about four pages long. That's sort of a backdrop.

We also have the report that is providing the guidance - the frame of reference - specifically, that this person is going to do this and this. If that's what the member wants, definitely it'll be shared with everybody. That's the whole objective. We want people to be part of the process in solving these issues.

Mr. Jenkins:      Well, Mr. Chair, we're setting up a whole new agency. Now, usually a statement as to the objectives of that agency or organization is the first thing that is established, then there are the terms of reference as to what they're going to accomplish and how they're to be accomplished. This, I'm sure, given that we're this far along - I'm not just looking for the job description or the advertisement placed in the respective news media to attract an individual to run this organization. I'm looking for the outline of how this organization is perceived by the government to run. There must be an organizational flow chart. There must be terms of reference as to what they're set out to do. Surely there has to be this much forethought given to this undertaking, Mr. Chair. That's what I'm looking for. Can the minister provide that, please?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Being that this is a public process, we supply everything to everyone. And I guess if the member opposite wants a kind of a plan that this is going to take place on day one, day two and day three - and I'm being very specific here - that isn't in place yet. We are still in the process of hiring a CEO. The objective here is to use our alcohol and drug report as sort of the guide aspect of our program for the future. Also, one of the parts of that report is to connect with communities as to what they as individuals would like to see us do in helping and supporting their concerns and their issues.

So those are not written down, because, first of all, we need the person who is going to be running the shop here to be in place. So some of these things will unfold. It doesn't mean the person comes in with a blank page. There are a lot of pages there from which that particular person can work. One of them, obviously, is FAS/FAE. We know what we're trying to do there; we want to integrate that into how we deliver services, as well. And the focus is to try to pull in all these issues that are wrapped around alcohol and drugs.

To say that we have a plan, yes, the plan is there. The report is the plan. That's the objective. Our scope is to work with all our partners in trying to build the plan even further. That's sort of the objective. I'm not sure if that's good enough for the member opposite, but that's where we're at at this point.

Once that person is in place - and this is the executive director - it will be their task to consult with key stakeholders and decide which, if any, of the many recommendations listed in the report are to be implemented. That's really our guide at this point in time. The report itself is the backdrop from where we move ahead. It's not the end. It's just the beginning.

Mr. Jenkins:      Let me try to understand this. The outline of this organization is the report done by the drug and alcohol services branch from Alberta, but after we have hired the executive director or CEO or however we want to refer to him for this drug and alcohol secretariat, the first part of his undertaking is to consult with the public to see which components of this drug and alcohol study we're going to implement. Is that what the minister said?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      I'm not into what I call micromanaging. In my former career, I was a micromanager. That's what I did.

As the minister, hopefully we just provide the broad theme or the broad philosophy as to the direction we want to go. We leave it up to the people who work for us to fill in the gaps - fill in the spots. My role when I went to a new school wasn't to just sit back and think about what I was going to do, but it was to sit down and think with my staff or with the group of people I was working with as to where they were at and what they're currently doing. For us, in this particular situation, we have a report that is going to help us look at where we might want to go, so we can sit down with staff again and look at how we can accomplish some of these goals, if they're not already being done.

It will also help us with how we're going to plan our venture into the communities and talk to people on the front lines - as to how and what input they will have - how we're going to share with our partners, and what kinds of things they're going to recommend that we do in the future.

So that, I would see, probably for the first six months, is going to be a big job in just pulling together all those resources and looking at a direction where we want to go. There are already things in place. It's not like we're starting all over here. So we utilize those resources that are working, and then we move on from there.

Leadership takes more than just hiring a person. It takes modelling, it takes example, and it takes doing things, and that's the objective here. For the first time, we are going to have a significant executive director with a very high profile, who is going to hopefully lead us into other pathways where we need to go in order to solve and resolve some of these very major concerns in our communities.

To say that I have written down exactly what the person's going to do - it's going to depend on that person, and we're going to take advice from that person, because that's the expertise of that person. I am not an alcohol and drug expert. I would expect that that's why we're hiring these people to come forward and provide us with their expertise.

I don't know if that helps. If it's not what the member wants, ask it again, and I'll see if I can come up with the answer. I may not be able to. I may give you the same answer because I am not micromanaging any of my departments. If that's what the member wants, I could probably not give him those details. It's going to be sort of unfolding as the person takes the position.

Mr. Jenkins:      Let's try again, Mr. Chair. Let's look at this in the broad stroke. Let's put it in a context that the minister might be more apt to understand. Let's look at the big picture. That's what I'm looking at. I'm not suggesting the minister micromanage anything.

What I'm suggesting is for the minister, if we look at a school, to establish the courses that are going to be offered. I'm not asking to get into the specifics of the curriculum of each one of the courses, but the total picture - what is going to be provided under this umbrella? How many individuals are we going to be employing under this umbrella?

There has to be some political direction provided from the top as to what the shape of this organization is going to look like, what this drug and alcohol secretariat is going to be, what it's going to conform to.

Now, I'm not looking at the product that they're going to deliver or how it's going to be delivered at this juncture, Mr. Chair. I'm just looking at the overall direction being provided by the minister - the political direction and the policies established by his government - as to what this organization is going to look like, how it's going to function, and what its goals are. Are the goals for this organization that they're hoping to achieve been established?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Maybe I should ask a question. I won't at this point, but I'll give answers.

Right from the employment opportunity, clearly in the first paragraph, it says here, "This senior executive position will provide leadership to a team of professionals in the planning, development, management and delivery of policies, programs and services in the area of education, prevention, assessment, counselling and treatment to promote public awareness and reduce alcohol and drug abuse in the Yukon." Now, that's the main, if you want to call it, philosophical theme, if that's what the member from there is talking about. It's right here. Well, it's also what we are expecting of the person who's going to fill this role.

Now, if the member wants me to get into the specifics, that's why we had the alcohol and drug report commissioned. This report brought forward a lot of ideas. It provided us a framework as to where we have some needs, where our strengths were, and hopefully form what we're trying to build as another form of delivery. That, again - I know there's some trust here that we have to have in the person that is going to be filling this position. We're going to be using current staff at this point in time. As we build and develop and we have more needs out there, we have built into the budget some additional dollars that will hopefully provide us with some direction, so that we can do something more. So that was the objective here.

Of course, in the report - and I guess that was the question. If the member needs a copy of the report, I'll make sure he gets one, because the report outlines a proposed organizational structure, with flow charts and the whole thing.

So I will not get into the specifics because that, again, would be me micromanaging, but if I can answer the member with some broad kinds of responses, hopefully I'll do that. And I don't want to get into arguments with the member opposite. I just want to present what we believe is going to be the framework in which this new secretariat - which we're very excited about on this side because we believe it's going to involve more partners in the process, and we're hearing people out there saying, "Yes, we need more help, we need more support."

Mr. Jenkins:      Given that we're only hiring one new individual and we're going to be assimilating a lot of other individuals from within the department, how is this transition going to take place? How is it envisioned to occur? The hardest thing to do is to set up a new series of objectives to achieve. Are all of these individuals going to be transferred over simultaneously? What's the date of that transition? When is this going to come into place, Mr. Chair?

Hon. Mr. Roberts:      Again, I can go back to my own skills. I went to five or six different schools here in Whitehorse, and every time to a different school, I was working with different people. My role was to pull people together. Together we went down the same track, trying to come up with how we were going to work as a team, and that's part of the leadership skills that I hope this person will have.

The whole secretariat - or the department now that works in alcohol and drug - will be moved once we have this executive director in place. It's not like they're moving to another building or to another place. That may happen down the pipe, but not at this point in time. That's why it's sort of a marriage with Health and Social Services at this point, and they will be working for the new executive director, as a team.

Staff, from my understanding, are very excited about this new venture, this new development. They believe that, for themselves, there needs to be some new direction, some new blood in the system, and they're very hopeful that, with all our partners in the communities - I know First Nations are very excited about what we're doing.

Yes, we want more input, but that's going to be the objective of the CEO, or the executive director, to poll these people. They're going to have to be very unique people. Most leaders, by the way, are very unique people. They can pull those things together, and they have a skill set of their own that sometimes, a lot of other people