Speaker:   I will now call the House to order. We will proceed at this time with prayers.

Speaker:   We will proceed at this time with the Order Paper.

Tributes.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Mr. Speaker, I ask my colleagues in this House to join me today in recognizing the 30^th anniversary of the Learning Disabilities Association of Yukon.

For 30 years this organization has supported children, adults, parents and professionals in helping individuals with learning difficulties through the struggle to reach their full potential. The Yukon association is part of a much larger national group, but it clearly shares the same mission and objectives to serve as a voice for persons with learning disabilities and those who support them.

At the local level, LDAY is dedicated to ensuring a level playing field for individuals with learning disabilities so that they can take their rightful place as Yukon citizens with equal opportunities to all others.

LDAY does this in many different ways. They raise general awareness about the nature and impact of learning disabilities. They advocate for those they serve. They make sure that everyone who needs to knows about the most recent research and educational tools available to help. They work on the front lines to make this a better place for those with learning disabilities.

Mr. Speaker, I firmly believe that LDAY and its volunteers have played a significant role in helping to change the general public’s perception of a segment of our population in such a way that we’re now more accepting of all individuals, despite their skills.

It is even more impressive when we realize that they have been doing this for 30 years, beginning at a time when there was not a lot of acceptance of individuals who were different. During those 30 years, LDAY has done much work in the area of prevention, early identification of learning disabilities, assessments, education, intervention, social interaction, family support, advocacy, employment assistance and justice to clients, parents, professionals and various levels of government. They work closely with other agencies in the Yukon, sharing their expertise and providing support to individuals with a wide variety of disabilities.

Mr. Speaker, the Yukon is a much better place because of LDAY, the volunteers and staff who are there today, and those who came before. I ask that we all recognize all those individuals and the work they have done here in the Yukon.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Fairclough:   I am pleased to rise on behalf of the official opposition to pay tribute to the 30^th anniversary of the Learning Disabilities Association of the Yukon, or LDAY.

Learning is a complex process. How the brain functions is still not well understood. Disabilities in the learning process are even less understood unless we have come into direct contact with people with them, through our family or friends.

Simply stated, learning disabilities are dysfunctions of the central nervous system, which impair the processing of information in an individual of potentially average or above average intelligence. With proper stimulation and support, many people with learning disabilities can make great strides in academics and in their personal lives.

From its beginning in 1973, LDAY has made steady progress in its purpose to be of benefit to people they serve — their clients. Over the years they have worked closely with other organizations with similar aims — Challenge, the community vocational alternative, the Yukon Association of Special Needs People, Special Olympics, just to name a few.

It started with educating educators about learning disabilities, and it began a tutor program for clients as early at 1976. In 1979, LDAY raised enough money to open the Child Development Centre — a very important service to children and parents throughout the Yukon.

It has created many programs for its clients — the summer and winter camps, sports programs, visual arts programs and many more.

One of the most important activities is in educating professionals and parents about learning disabilities. It has sponsored dozens of workshops and conferences, teaching hundreds of people about how to be more effective when working with people with learning disabilities.

The philosophy of LDAY is that persons with learning disabilities can and do learn to accommodate their disabilities and become productive members of society, if they are given the extra assistance and understanding. Society itself would make greater progress if we all learned to apply this philosophy in our own workplace and in our social lives.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Duncan:   Mr. Speaker, I rise on behalf of the Liberal caucus to celebrate the Learning Disabilities Association of Yukon. LDAY provides a wide range of services for children, adults and families who are struggling to acquire language skills in an effort to become happy and productive citizens of the Yukon. Yesterday, as legislators, we emphasized the volunteer commitment of one and the power of many — the theme of Volunteer Week. The power of many has been exhibited for many years in LDAY.

On June 6, 2003, the Learning Disabilities Association of Yukon will celebrate 30 years of staff and volunteer service of making a positive difference in the lives of Yukoners with learning disabilities. A philosophy of this Yukon organization is that success is only achieved through the building of strong community partnerships. LDAY has made a tremendous difference in the lives of Yukoners and has truly exhibited a strong community partnership. As legislators, we celebrate your 30 years of success and wish you all the very best in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Mr. Speaker, last weekend in my home community of Dawson City, I was very privileged to have been invited to view the annual competition among the territory’s emergency medical service volunteers. Teams from around the Yukon gathered in Dawson to compete against each other in a variety of mock emergency situations and events. While this was being done in fun, it was also a way to help them to hone the skills they need as volunteer ambulance attendants. Yesterday we heard how integral volunteers are to Yukon society. Without them, we would be lost. Well, Mr. Speaker, volunteers do more than sit on boards and organize events and fundraise. They are also on the front lines, just like these emergency medical service volunteers. For a number of years, I served with the volunteer ambulance in Dawson City, and I learned first-hand that the men and women who volunteer their time to respond to emergencies and ambulance calls see more tragic events than happy ones.

The sights that greet them are not often pretty and yet they respond in a thoroughly professional manner. They are dedicated to their volunteer jobs and they show that dedication every time they answer a call and every time they show up to an event like last weekend’s.

Mr. Speaker, today I’d like to pay tribute to this very special group of volunteers, the men and women who are volunteer emergency medical service attendants. Thank you.

Speaker:   Are there any further tributes?

Introduction of visitors.

Ms. Duncan:   I would ask all members of the Legislature to join me in welcoming three teachers from Porter Creek Secondary School — Mr. Sullivan, Mr. Toews and Ms. MacLean — and their grade 11 social studies students. Thank you very much.

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   I would also like to ask the members to welcome these youth. It is a pleasure to have all of them present in the Legislature today, and I sincerely hope that some of them will choose a political path and one day be sitting here as MLAs.

Speaker:   Under tabling of returns and documents, I have for tabling a report of the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly on travel expenses of members of the Assembly during the 2002-03 fiscal year.

Are there any further returns or documents for tabling?

Hon. Mr. Fentie:   I have a legislative return for tabling in regard to a question by the leader of the third party.

Hon. Ms. Taylor:   Mr. Speaker, I also have for tabling the annual report 2001-02 for the crime prevention and victim services trust fund.

Speaker:   Are there any further returns or documents for tabling?

Are there any reports of committees?

Are there any petitions?

Are there any bills to be introduced?

Are there any notices of motion?

Mr. McRobb:   I have for tabling the following motion:

THAT it is the opinion of this House that

(1) it is not in the public interest for Members of the Legislative Assembly, or Cabinet ministers in particular, to become or to remain indebted to the Government of Yukon, either as individuals or as directors or shareholders of business entities;

(2) neither existing legislation nor Government of Yukon guidelines contain adequate measures requiring Members of the Legislative Assembly or Cabinet ministers to discharge any unfulfilled financial obligations to the public purse; and

(3) the Standing Committee on Public Accounts has the authority to examine any matter pertaining to the financial administration of the Government of Yukon, its departments, Crown corporations and agencies, to call witnesses and to commission independent study on practices in other jurisdictions; and

THAT this House directs the Standing Committee on Public Accounts to examine the question of whether, and under what circumstances, elected officials may become or remain indebted to the Government of Yukon and, in so doing, to call such witnesses, conduct or commission such studies and recommend such actions as the committee sees fit, in accordance with the best interests of the people of the Yukon.

Speaker:   Are there any further notices of motion?

Is there a ministerial statement?

This then brings us to Question Period.

Mr. Hardy:   I have a question for the Premier. On previous occasions the Premier has gone on at great length about the need for a fair and equitable process for collecting debts owed to the government. In other words, a level playing field. Yet the Premier himself is the one who tilted the field by treating some debtors more favourably than others.

Does the Premier believe that it is fair and equitable to reward two people with long-standing debts to the government by making them ministers of that government?

Hon. Mr. Fentie:   Well, Mr. Speaker, I disagree with the member opposite that this is a reward. This is a commitment and a responsibility that has been taken on by two individuals in this government who were elected by their constituents to perform those duties. This is not a reward; it is tasking these individuals with a tremendous responsibility, and that is part of what was weighed in the balance here in making the decision on whether this particular issue compromised their ability to carry out those duties. It does not, and we proceeded accordingly.

Mr. Hardy:   The voters chose the two individuals in question to be MLAs. It was the Premier who chose to make them Cabinet ministers. It was a political choice. That political choice by the Premier has the Yukon people wondering if there is one standard for friends in this government and another standard for everyone else.

As a matter of public policy, does the Premier believe that any individual or business should be allowed to make a profit or accept new contracts from the Yukon government if that individual or business is in default to the government on taxes or loans? Is that a good public policy?

Hon. Mr. Fentie:   The issue that the member has just brought to the floor of the Legislature — when it comes to policy, one of the reasons why we are doing the necessary work in this area is to determine these things. That is why we, as a government, have committed to find a fair and equitable solution to these delinquencies. There are many of them — and long-standing.

I would point out that these have been a matter of record for years. The two gentlemen in question were elected. The members opposite had the opportunity, when in government — both the official opposition and the third party — to deal with this issue. They did not — we are.

Mr. Hardy:   Once again, we should notice that the Premier didn’t answer the question.

We understand the position the Premier is in, though. I’m sure the Premier would like nothing more than to have this issue over and done with. It’s embarrassing to his government and it’s embarrassing to all elected members of the Assembly. We applaud the Premier’s decision to deal with the overall question of the unpaid loans, as he stated earlier. However, this House has a particular stake in resolving the questions of ministers and MLAs who owe money to the taxpayers.

Will the Premier support the principle behind the motion tabled a few minutes ago by my colleague, to have the Public Accounts Committee look into the overall question of elected officials with outstanding public debts, including any possible legislative or policy amendments that might be advisable? I hope for an answer this time.

Hon. Mr. Fentie:   Well, Mr. Speaker, I would inform the member and submit to this House that the question was answered. The problem is that the member opposite doesn’t like the answer.

In regard to the Public Accounts Committee, it’s my understanding that this is one of the areas — in terms of indebtedness to the government — that this committee could undertake to look into. We, as a government, will not stand in the way of due process of our institution — the Government of Yukon. So, of course this side of the House will entertain those suggestions, when and if the Public Accounts Committee meets in the near future.

Mr. Hardy:   Yesterday, the Premier was quite obliging when he told the House that stakeholders would be involved in helping with the selection of a new deputy minister for the Department of Tourism and Culture. That makes it all the more puzzling why he won’t stipulate what stakeholders have been asked to provide input on the DM position for the phantom Department of Economic Development.

Will the Premier confirm that the stakeholders involved in the Economic Development selection do not include anyone representing labour or First Nations?

Speaker:   Before the hon. Premier answers the question, I’d remind the member that it’s not the phantom department. There is a Department of Economic Development, and I’d ask that you not use that terminology.

Hon. Mr. Fentie:   Mr. Speaker, the process for hiring a deputy minister for the Department of Economic Development that this government has committed to implement — unfortunately, it’s a department that was dismantled at a time when a department of this nature was very much needed in this territory. We have committed to a process that involves input from the public and stakeholders, and when hiring the deputy minister there has been a process embarked on that will have input from representative people out there in the community, and it also will have representatives of government involved because of the threshold that must be adhered to when it comes to the deputy minister position.

But the more important fact is the structure of the department and the process that we will embark on in creating this department. That includes, obviously, many, many areas of the constituency in the Yukon, but we cannot conduct a hiring process of thousands of people. We must expedite this process, and we are making best efforts to ensure that the hiring process is representative of the constituency that’s most impacted.

Mr. Hardy:   Well, obviously, we have an A list at play here. If the Premier thinks that it’s necessary to get public input when it comes to hiring a senior government bureaucrat, he should make sure that input really does come from and represent the stakeholders. There are many more people with a stake in the Yukon’s economic future than the Chamber of Commerce and the construction industry. I want to follow up on a very strange comment the Premier made yesterday about the process of getting stakeholder input not influencing government. If the input of these stakeholders doesn’t have any influence on the government decision, what is the point of seeking that input? Is this government’s approach to consulting just to make people feel good about being asked then ignoring their advice?

Hon. Mr. Fentie:   Not at all, Mr. Speaker. It’s intended to ensure that there are informed decisions resulting in recommendations to government in this particular area of hiring a deputy minister.

But I want to point something else out, Mr. Speaker, and this is important because, when we come to the issue of double standard, this government has embarked on a process for hiring deputy ministers. On the other side of the House sit representatives of two political parties in this territory that did no such thing. They hired and fired deputy ministers based on political influence, and that is something we will not do as a government. We expect to conduct ourselves in these areas with no political boundaries, in the best interests of the Yukon public.

Mr. Hardy:   The Premier on the opposite side loves to point something else out in this House — that’s one of his common phrases — but he doesn’t answer the questions that are asked from this side, which we are entitled to ask and which we expect answers to from the other side.

Now, I’ll tell you — the Premier doesn’t get it. The concern that the Yukon people have about this Yukon Party government is who is really running the show. Is it the Premier, is it the Yukon Party backroom people, is it the business community? The Premier is the one who picks the people who head up government departments. Those people serve at the pleasure of the Premier and their job is to make sure that the departments implement the agenda of the elected government.

The real question is: who is secretly setting the agenda?

What measures has the Premier taken to make sure the process of getting input from stakeholders outside of government will not be allowed to buy us the hiring or firing process or undermine the objective certification process used by the Public Service Commission?

Hon. Mr. Fentie:   The answer is simple: by having political representatives stay out of this process, so there is not that spectre raised that we are making a hiring based on anything but the public interest. Furthermore, when it comes to who runs the government, I would submit to the member opposite that it is the public, based on the mandate presented to the public in the last election. The public elected this government, and we are very conscious of the fact that it is the public who runs the government, not we in this House.

Ms. Duncan:   I have some questions today for the Minister of Education. During the election, the Yukon Party promised Yukoners that if they voted for them, they would do a number of things in the field of education. So far, they haven’t followed up on any of them.

I will start with a very straightforward question. This is very easy for the minister to answer. Not to make light of it, but to use a sports analogy, it’s just like a penalty shot at an empty net. Will the minister commit that no schools will be shut down during the entire term of this Yukon Party government? It’s a straightforward question. Will any schools be closed by this government?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   To start with, I have to disagree with the member opposite. This government has not broken repeated promises. Second, in answer to her question, I would say that that is a very hypothetical question and that I am not very good at predicting the future, and I don’t intend to start in this House.

Ms. Duncan:   I guess Yukoners will wait and see which Yukon school the Yukon Party will close first. People voted for this government because of a number of education promises. I am glad the minister raised them. I want to know which ones the minister is going to keep.

The platform said that this government would recognize the pursuit of education by keeping three specific promises. Let’s start with them. They all relate to students who are in high school, whom the minister welcomed today, as I did. The minister has had six months, so there should be a plan as to how these promises are going to be implemented and when.

When is the minister going to create the Yukon achievement awards that were promised? When is he going to reinstate the Yukon excellence awards? When will he index the Yukon grant? These are three specific education promises. When will they be kept?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   In regard to the previous question about closing schools, I would have to say today that, whatever happens in the future, all decisions that are made by this government will include all stakeholders. I also want to put on record today that it’s important that the people in the Yukon Territory know and realize that the funding applied to YTG is done on a per capita basis. When we have had 3,000 people moving out of the territory over the last three years, it’s bound to have some effect on the capacity of the schools.

Again I say that those are issues that will be dealt with, and not by trying to make predictions.

With regard to the student indexing, I think we did mention on the floor of this House, on more than one occasion, that that is something that is ongoing right now and is being looked at.

Ms. Duncan:   The minister did not answer the questions. They are simple questions about education promises. Money that is transferred to the Yukon is to ensure that services are in place. These promises were made to the Yukon public, and the government said, "If you vote for us, we’ll do these things." The government is not living up to its end of the bargain.

Let’s try three other education promises, Mr. Speaker. They’re about recognizing the contribution of teachers to the success of our education system, teachers who are gathering this weekend in Whitehorse. I’d like specific answers from the minister.

When is the minister going to establish the honour roll of Yukon teachers? When exactly is he going to make changes to the hiring process to give priority to Yukon resident teachers, and when exactly will he be developing the four-year teacher training program? When exactly will these education promises be kept?

Hon. Mr. Edzerza:   I should remind the member opposite that none of these things were done by the previous government of two and a half years, and I’ve been in here all of five months. I apologize if I can’t complete all of these tasks in four to five months. I believe that this government has a mandate of four years, and we have four years to deal with our platform.

Thank you.

Mr. McRobb:   We should all be doing whatever is possible to help our tourism industry through the current tough times and to help it face the current challenges. The Yukon Convention Bureau is very successful in bringing conventions and meetings to the territory. In fiscal year 2001-02, it won 20 of 29 bids to bring conferences to the territory. That success rate, Mr. Speaker, is over 70 percent. Last year, it also assisted some 66 local groups locate meetings within the territory. These included sports groups and organizations and so on, Mr. Speaker. The return on investment from conventioneers is 17:1, not including additional hotel expenses, bar tabs and souvenirs. There’s a lot of upside potential in this area. Will the minister increase the budget for the Yukon Convention Bureau, as will be possible when the government introduces a supplementary budget when we return in the fall legislative sitting?

Hon. Ms. Taylor:   Thank you again for the opportunity to say a lot of good words about all of the positive initiatives that this government is undertaking in the tourism industry.

Certainly the Yukon Convention Bureau plays a very important role. They have done a great job in attracting visitors to the territory. I would like nothing more than to offer them more assistance by way of this government. We are maintaining their contribution agreement to the tune of $200,000. We made our commitment to do everything that we can to work with the bureau, and we will continue to do so. Unfortunately, we are in a situation where we are fiscally restrained, as the member opposite knows. So I cannot give that commitment. There are other needs or other priorities that have to be addressed. This is one of them, but at this time I cannot commit to any additional funds to the Convention Bureau.

Thank you.

Mr. McRobb:   The Yukon Convention Bureau is currently returning some $3 million to $4 million per year to the territory’s economy. There’s a lot more upside potential — easily $10 million per year could be reached. The government is awfully tight with the bucks to the tourism industry but it was quick to hand out a multi-million dollar tax break to miners, Mr. Speaker.

So, in order to help level the playing field for these industries, will the government agree to implement a one-year tax break on business tax for our Yukon tourism operators? We, on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, would be quick to support that.

Hon. Ms. Taylor:   I’d just like to take this opportunity to explain to the members opposite just what our government is doing.

Some Hon. Member:   (Inaudible)

Hon. Ms. Taylor:   Thank you for the interruption. I would just like to point out that the brand strategy — we are continuing efforts to develop and incorporate corporate destination marketing strategy. We are committed to product development. We will be hiring an additional person just for product development in the territory. We are looking at marketing initiatives. We are including the industry, Yukon tourism marketing partnership, in some of these very important decisions as to where our marketing dollars are effectively spent. It’s one of the first times that industry has been included on a 100-percent basis.

So I think that all of these things are going to be able to leverage the dollars we are currently spending, which will enhance our ability to attract visitors in the territory.

Mrs. Peter:   Today my question is for the Premier. An accord was signed between the Vuntut Gwitchin First Nation and the Premier on January 30, 2003. The Vuntut Gwitchin Intergovernmental Relations Accord calls for a review of progress and two scheduled meetings a year with department deputy ministers.

Can the Premier tell us if that review has taken place and, if not, can he give me a date when this will occur? And who are the deputy ministers involved?

Hon. Mr. Fentie:   The member opposite refers to the fact that we, as a government, have reaffirmed an existing protocol with the Vuntut Gwitchin. It commits us as government and the government of Vuntut Gwitchin to work in a collective in a number of areas.

Our budget reflects this very protocol and an area of that commitment when it comes to the re-stabilization of the riverbank on the Porcupine River at Old Crow. So there is an example of concrete action driven by this government accord. We think these types of mechanisms are very important for our relationship.

As far as the annual meetings, I will be discussing this, obviously, with the government of Vuntut Gwitchin, with the chief. I have had a number of discussions with the chief already over a number of issues. As soon as we are at a point where we have more time available and are out of the sitting, we will be endeavouring to make up these particular meetings to ensure that we continue conducting ourselves in the spirit and intent of the Intergovernmental Relations Accord.

Mrs. Peter:   I’ve had my own discussions with leadership, and we are looking for a specific date. The accord has attached a list of common priorities for the two parties. One in particular calls for an analysis of existing government programs in Old Crow to identify gaps in service and to coordinate the delivery programs between the Vuntut Gwitchin and the Yukon government. These are very important priorities for our government in Old Crow, Mr. Speaker.

Can the Premier give us an update on the progress of that analysis and some detail on the gaps that have been identified so far?

Hon. Mr. Fentie:   I think it can be said that we recognize there are a number of gaps, whether they be in social or health areas, in education or, obviously, economic development. Those types of issues do have gaps and we recognize that. That is why, as a government, we reaffirmed our commitment to this intergovernmental accord. We want to work on these areas, because it’s not only important to the First Nation — the Vuntut Gwitchin people — it’s also very important to the government and to the Yukon Territory as a whole.

When we are successful in solving these problems and bringing forward solutions, it benefits all Yukoners. So we are very committed to dealing with those issues.

Mr. Fairclough:   My question is for the Minister of Highways and Public Works. Over the past couple of years, people living along the Silver Trail have raised concerns about the condition of the highway in terms of public safety, and the downturn in tourism. The Silver Trail is getting a bad reputation and tourists are avoiding this beautiful section of the Yukon. The highway maintenance budget for Mayo has been reduced by 7.3 percent from last year, and this on Mayo’s 100^th anniversary.

What is the minister doing to correct the problem, and can he give the people of Mayo, Elsa and Keno his assurance that the resources will be in place for proper maintenance on the Silver Trail and the Signpost Road?

Hon. Mr. Hart:   For the member opposite, I thank him for his question. We are working with our maintenance crew on that particular area, and we can assure you that the maintenance will be provided in that area.

Mr. Fairclough:   Well, highway maintenance takes place every summer. Last year, the road was in very bad shape and tourists were turning their big rigs around at the Silver Trail Inn and not going up to Keno. They experienced that short section of road that was muddy and they certainly weren’t going to be driving their expensive vehicles down that road. Now that section of the Yukon is being avoided by tourists.

Many people in Mayo and in Keno think that that section between Mayo and Keno is very dangerous and one day it may get somebody hurt. The road is narrow and has many blind turns, and brushing needs to be done. Can the minister lay out the long-term plans for the Silver Trail? When will we see the road brought up to acceptable standards and being properly maintained?

Hon. Mr. Hart:   We are continually looking at all our secondary roads throughout the Yukon and maintaining them to ensure that they’re maintained in proper accordance with the area that they’re in.

Mr. Fairclough:   Those answers from the member opposite were not adequate. I would like to relay this message back to my constituents. It’s obvious the minister doesn’t have any answers here, so I’d like him to read the questions in the Blues and provide some detail of their long-term plans for the Silver Trail by legislative return so that I can take it to my constituents. Would he simply commit to that at least?

Hon. Mr. Hart:   The member opposite obviously doesn’t like the answer. We are maintaining our road facilities throughout the Yukon, not just in this particular area, to maintain the standard that’s required in the areas where they were lacking.

We were in contact with the Village of Mayo on this issue in the past and will be addressing it.

Mr. Cardiff:   My question is for the Premier.

Recently the Premier recognized that there was a problem with the consultation that took place for the proposed land development on the Atlin Road. Extensive plans were developed before stakeholders were consulted in a meaningful way, and the Premier intervened in that matter. I applaud him for doing that. The residents of Wolf Creek, Pineridge, Mary Lake and MacRae have waited patiently for the Minister of Community Services to answer their concerns about the Whitehorse Copper land development and, to date, have not had a satisfactory response.

Will the Premier intervene, as he did in the Atlin Road case, and assure residents that no development of any kind will take place until a full and complete consultation has taken place?

Hon. Mr. Hart:   I’d like to respond to the member opposite in his question.

We have initiated an environmental assessment in that particular area and, once that process is underway, we’ll take it from there.

Mr. Cardiff:   I’d like to congratulate the Minister of Community Services for his promotion.

There are many concerns about the impacts of this development on the environment, the wildlife habitat and highway traffic; there are concerns about the effect on the water table and even the Whitehorse watershed, let alone the fact that much of this land is not even suitable for development or that there’s even a demonstrated need for this development.

The residents of this city want the city to do a site-specific review of the official community plan and this government is responsible for that development. The minister has the authority as the official agent to support that review, and he was asked to do that a month ago.

Will the Premier now direct the minister to provide that support?

Hon. Mr. Hart: We are in the process of hopefully trying to address most of the questions that he has brought up. We are in the process of doing that. We have been in consultation with the community members on the water issue, as well as other issues that were brought up in a previous event. We have had discussions with them, and we will get there.

We have triggered the YEAA process with that particular project, and we will await the process through which that goes.

Mr. Cardiff:   Obviously the Premier doesn’t have an opinion on this project.

This government seems to have many problems with doing adequate consultations. Many of this government’s projects have reached advanced stages of planning before meaningful consultation has taken place, and in some instances, before it is even begun. Yukon citizens expect more from their elected officials. Will the Premier work with the Minister of Community Services over the summer to ensure that the minister understands that consultation is job one whenever his department ventures into any kind of land planning or development?

Hon. Mr. Hart:   I can assure the member opposite that we are addressing the concerns of all development within the Yukon. We have adjusted this particular site from the original concept of what it was. We are looking at getting a more open and global concept with regard to land planning throughout the Yukon and to get a more direct consultation process.

As the member mentioned earlier with regard to the Atlin situation, I think that is an obvious one that the government, in its process, has fallen down on, but we are addressing it and are going to correct that situation and that will it to future developments.

Speaker:   The time for Question Period has now elapsed.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Pursuant to Standing Orders 14.2(7), I would like to inform the House that, in order to provide more time to the opposition members to debate the public’s business, the government private members do not wish to identify any items to be called on Wednesday, April 30, 2003, under the heading of government private members’ business.

Speaker:   We will now proceed to Orders of the Day.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   I move that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole.

Speaker:   It has been moved by the government House leader that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole.

Chair:   Order please. Committee of the Whole will now come to order. The matter before the Committee is Bill No. 21, Act to Amend the Pioneer Utility Grant Act.

Do members wish a recess?

Some Hon. Members:   Agreed.

Chair:   We’ll stand in recess until 2:00 p.m.

Chair:   Committee of the Whole will now come to order. The matter before the Committee is Bill No. 21, an Act to Amend the Pioneer Utility Grant Act in general debate.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Mr. Chair, when we left general debate on this issue, we were dealing with the amendments that our government has brought forward with the pioneer utility grant, and this is a commitment of our government to increase the pioneer utility grant from $600 per year to a maximum of $750 per year in the next cycle. That is to say, the expenses that seniors are incurring over the course of this winter, when they apply, will be reflected in the grant the next grant cycle, and that is going to $750. In subsequent years beyond that, Mr. Chair, it will be indexed against the inflation rate. So there will be an incremental increase in that grant.

Unlike what was being considered by the previous Liberal administration, there will be no means test applied to this grant. It will be applied universally.

Mr. Chair, from there, we have taken the steps to ensure that seniors remain in their own homes by providing as many measures and as much assistance as we possibly can to address this area. The most cost-effective manner for government to address the costs of seniors housing is to provide the assistance to allow seniors to remain in their own homes as long as possible, and that’s what this is accomplishing.

There’s a small amendment that also adds to this area, and that is that a surviving spouse will be eligible to receive the grant and that age changes from 60 down to 55. Of course this is going to raise questions from the opposition, Mr. Chair, as to whether it is a government policy to lower the threshold for a number of other programs.

But I would encourage the opposition to look at the merit of this initiative of our Yukon Party government, and that is to ensure that we can allow our seniors to remain in their own homes for as long as we possibly can by providing assistance. That is an added step that we have taken to ensure that this is very much the case.

The total package is going to impact on the financial bottom line of the government, but the benefits will far outweigh doing nothing. Previously there was an initiative by the Liberal government to address the shortcomings with increased fuel prices by providing a one-time grant. This avoids this. This sets in regulation and in statute these commitments that we have made.

Mr. Chair, when we look at the total cost of the pioneer utility grant in 2002-03, it’s projected to be just over half a million dollars — $510,000 — and based on the base load, it’s projected to increase to $678,000 in 2003-04, and that’s just extrapolating the population increase into the category and of the uptake on this program.

By 2004-05, three-quarters of a million dollars will go into the pioneer utility grant, and that’s driven by the number of applicants going from a projected number in 2002-03 of 850 to 960 odd in 2004-05. Our population is ageing, and it’s looking like we will just go over 1,000 in the number of applicants in 2005-06 and, by 2007-08, the projections are that there will be just under 1,200 applicants for the pioneer utility grant.

This bodes well for the programs the government has in place because previously our seniors, once they reached retirement age, would pack up and leave. There are incentives to remain here in the Yukon, to partake in society and make a positive contribution to society, like our seniors are doing, Mr. Chair. This program, while it has some significant numbers attached to it — its benefits are very much evident.

So, that said, I will entertain further questions in general debate.

Hon. Mr. Lang:   I would like to welcome in the gallery a friend of Carcross, a long-time resident there, Bill Van Zoest, and also his friend who is from mainland China. I would like to take this moment to give them a round of applause.

Mr. Fairclough:   Mr. Chair, I do have comments to make on this simple amendment. We’re basically moving the age down from 60 to age 55 with this amendment, and I think maybe even the minister might be in conflict as I think he would even qualify for this, but I don’t think he would be applying for a rebate for home heating fuel.

I wrote a letter to the minister awhile back urging that the increase of 25 percent be made to the pioneer utility grant and to have it indexed against inflation.

When first elected, the Yukon Party said they would do it. We asked that they convene the House to deal with issues such as this, and we did not get the chance in the month of December or in January. So here we are dealing with this, which we normally do in the fall. I asked the minister if he would make this retroactive to last year, because that’s when the commitment was made during the election campaign, and this did not happen.

The minister also said in his letter to me that the indexing against inflation would happen along with the 25 percent. But I believe in his statements he just made that the indexing would be next year — the following year, not those who can claim this pioneer utility grant in this current year. Neither did they have it in the last fiscal year. This is a bit of a concern to me. I’m wondering where the minister is going with this. Because it’s not a big ticket item, it’s not a huge cost to government. I’m hoping the minister is not going to cry poverty on this one, particularly with the fact that we are receiving $36 million plus over the next three years to deal with health issues, so the Department of Health and Social Services is not broke. They have money and room to move in many different directions. This could simply come out of the department. It does not need to be even budgeted for in a regular budgeting process.

More people would be eligible to apply for the grant, and this is a good thing, finally, because we’ve asked the minister to do many things over the past little while. In dealing with Macaulay Lodge, that was a mess up, in my view, by the minister taking action without consultation, talking like our seniors and elders living in Macaulay Lodge are not respected the way they should be.

In other words, his words were that we can simply move you up to Copper Ridge, where you can be contained. That was the minister’s language, and I was very surprised at not having the respect shown to our seniors and elders in that regard.

When it comes to seniors facilities — we haven’t seen that commitment in other parts of the Yukon that the Yukon Party promised during the election campaign, but we see it in Dawson City and Watson Lake. I can tell the member opposite that many people view this government — particularly the Premier of southeast Yukon. That’s how they view it.

If the members opposite would like to change, then maybe we could see some reflection in some of the communities when they do bring up their priorities.

Those are my short comments to this very small amendment. I don’t think we need to spend much time at it. I will just turn it over to the leader of the third party for her comments.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   I am very uncomfortable with the way the debate headed under the official opposition’s guidance. I am very, very uncomfortable.

An accurate reflection of our party’s commitment is clearly provided in this pioneer utility grant that is before the House today for debate. It meets all of the campaign commitments. Not only that, it accomplishes what it is set out to accomplish, and that is to assist our seniors in their homes here in the Yukon for as long as they possibly can. It achieves that goal. It’s one of a number of initiatives, but it’s the main initiative in this area, Mr. Chair.

To suggest that I could benefit with a surviving spouse at 55 — I’d like to remind the member that I’m not dead yet. They might have some desire in that regard, but I’m still not dead. That said, Mr. Chair, if we look at the priorities our government assumed upon being elected into office, they were many and varied, and it has taken us a short time to get a handle on a lot of these initiatives. We do have a handle on these initiatives, and the finances under the previous administration were running way over. There was a spending spree that was unsurpassed in the history of the governments of the Yukon, so much so that a Yukon Party government was forced to pay service charges to the bank for borrowing and for not maintaining a minimum balance on hand at various times during the course of the last fiscal period.

The Auditor General will be reporting in due course as to the financial affairs of the government, and the balance sheet will clearly reflect where we’re at. There is no problem finding anyone to advise this ministry as to how to spend money. There’s no shortage out there, Mr. Chair.

There are a lot of initiatives surrounding health care and the Department of Health and Social Services. In fact, the opposition and the third party go on at great lengths about this $30 million odd that’s going to be flowing to the Yukon. Well, yes, it is, but what they fail to recognize is over what period of time and for what these funds have been earmarked by the federal government, Mr. Chair. That’s a given. We have to comply with our federal masters as to where this money is to end up. We have no choice about that.

And then when you look at the number of years over which this funding is going to be flowing, we were very fortunate to negotiate the $20 million over three years. But when our spending trajectory has been $7 million to $10 million per annum for the last seven fiscal cycles, we’ve got to get a handle on that money, and we have to get a handle on Health and Social Services and its spending trajectory.

When we look at the new money, it has pretty well all been committed. Approximately $2 million is going to flow to the Whitehorse Hospital Corporation. The drug formulary takes another $1 million or more in each year. In addition to that, there is FASSY and the Child Development Centre that have undertaken additional responsibilities as well as addressing their initial responsibilities, and this is with the FASD initiative.

Add these all together, Mr. Chair, and it’s a significant amount of money.

Then you dump a mess on us like the Thomson Centre, a 10-year-old building that’s going to take approaching $2 million to repair, that was constructed under the NDP government’s watch and that we have inherited in a dilapidated state. It has been unoccupied for what is very shortly coming up to one year, Mr. Chair.

That bodes well for careful planning and very capable overseeing of projects by a previous administration. That must be clearly identified as being an NDP administration.

Then yesterday, the Member for Mayo-Tatchun is on at me about the Copper Ridge Place being too noisy for the surrounding residents. It has to be clearly pointed out that we didn’t have any responsibility for placing the facility where it is. That was another NDP administration, and the Member for Mayo-Tatchun was a minister in the Cabinet of the day that made the decision as to where that facility was going to be located.

So now the opposition comes back at us, Mr. Chair, and says, "Well, now you’re the government; you fix it." Well, we have a lot to fix as a government, and it’s going to take us quite some time to get a lot of these projects fixed and up and running. But going back to what we’re here to debate today — and this is a debate on the pioneer utility grant, and it increases it from $600 to $750 for the next cycle, which is coming on us fast. That will start next winter. In subsequent years after that, it will be indexed against inflation; and also a surviving spouse has been reduced from age 60 to 55 to receive the benefits accruing. All of these changes that our government has spent time analyzing and going through are to ensure that our seniors can be allowed to remain in their own homes for as long as possible.

Mr. Chair, I don’t know if there’s any need for further debate on this. I would encourage the opposition to just grant speedy passage to this. This is a very good initiative for the seniors here in the Yukon, and it’s extremely beneficial for all.

Mr. Fairclough:   Every time we on this side of the House ask questions that upset the minister, they do the blame game — blame the other governments, whine and cry. We’ve heard it time and time again on that side of the House, particularly from that minister, Mr. Chair.

All we want is for the minister to get focused. He made a commitment, a promise, during the election campaign and said they fulfilled it but, in his answers to my question in regard to indexing the increase against inflation, he says no, not until next year, not for the past fiscal year and not for this year.

So, is that a broken commitment by the Yukon Party? I would think so. We asked for this increase immediately upon the election of the government, and that could have happened. We could have done the amendments to the act later, so the minister cannot go out and blame anybody else for different acts or for the fact that some acts in government need amendments. It’s ongoing.

In regard to buildings, buildings fall apart. Who built the Thomson Centre? Was it the president of the Yukon Party? The executive? Maybe the member opposite needs to think about that. If he would like to talk about New Democratic initiatives, talk about things like —

Some Hon. Member:   Point of order.

Chair:   Mr. Jenkins, on a point of order.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   We’re not to refer to specific individuals on the floor of this House. They can’t defend themselves, and that’s very unparliamentary.

Chair:  Mr. Fairclough, on the point of order.

Mr. Fairclough:   There is no point of order. The member is just upset at comments that I made. He, himself, talked about the previous governments that are not here in this House to defend themselves.

Chair:   Order please. There is no point of order. There was no reference to an individual by name. However, the Chair has noticed on a prior occasion an instance where a reference to an individual was made, and I would like to remind all members not to raise individuals’ names to identify them or to cast aspersions upon their character.

Mr. Fairclough:   Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Despite how the minister feels, we on this side of the House will ask strong questions and we know that it is going to upset the members opposite simply because we hear, again, them blaming the Liberals, the NDP — notice that they didn’t even take time to blame their own party for some of the things they’ve done, like reduction in wages, for example, that cost them the election.

We support the amendments to this act.

Ms. Duncan:   I rise in general debate on this piece of legislation to make a couple of points. First of all, I support the amendment to the legislation. The amendment to the legislation, however, does not address a number of the other topics that the minister has brought into the debate this afternoon. The amendment to the legislation, I believe, deals with a particular issue that was brought to the minister’s attention, either when he was in opposition or as a member of this House. So upon being elected to government, he has made steps to deal with it. That is certainly laudable. That’s why we were elected — to serve our constituents.

I have difficulty with the change. I have asked previously what impact this has on other policy. Will we look at lowering the age in other instances, for example? The minister in his response this afternoon for the camera noted that —

Chair:   Order please. Implying that the member did something for the camera is out of order.

Ms. Duncan:   I will suggest, then, that the minister did, in his first initial speech say that we would be asked, but certainly he wasn’t going to bother to address it. He said he wasn’t going to address that issue, Mr. Chair. That is in order; that is what the member has said — that he wouldn’t address the point, a valid point that has been raised. We should, when we’re examining all legislation, ask what impact it has on other government policy.

Now, the minister has also said that this is in keeping with keeping seniors in their own homes, which is not a Yukon Party initiative. It has been public policy for many, many years. Long before party politics in the Yukon, that has been a principle of the Yukon government and it encourages people to retire here, which we have seen. We have a tremendous retirement population here in the Yukon, and they are incredibly active. Seniors recognize that they have among the best, if not the very best, of services from governments anywhere in the country, and that is something that all of us in this Legislature agree with.

There is a very key impact upon all of our other policy. For example, in an effort to keep seniors in their own homes, we are also going to have to deal with such initiatives as the home and yard maintenance program, an initiative of the previous Liberal government, I might add — very, very well-received by the seniors.

There is also an impact upon home care, something desperately needed in Tagish, for example, as you are well aware, Mr. Chair.

So, although the minister has spoken at great length and there are a number of areas on which I disagree with his comments — however, that would simply be a dispute between members — the point remains that this legislation is important. I applaud the changes. I agree with them. I support them. I recognize, as a member of the Legislature, that this has an impact elsewhere on government policy, and that needs to be carefully considered. The minister has not provided a complete answer, in my view, on that and I think he should elaborate as to the government’s intention.

The minister also has not clearly indicated — today was the first time that we have heard clear indication that the indexation promised in the platform is an indexation against inflation, or the inflation index will be used. We’ve not heard that. It has been assumed but it’s not specifically stated in the platform. Index to what? Index to inflation is what the minister said. Now, that’s a matter for regulation.

The minister has not, and I listened very carefully — at the Yukon Council on Aging he promised the seniors that they would see those changes in time when they next filed their grant or application. So that would mean that those changes are coming in regulation and, of course, regulation is not the matter that we’re discussing at the moment. We’re discussing the specific change to the pioneer utility grant.

So, the minister, when he next stands on his feet, could indicate very clearly how and when the regulation change to index the pioneer utility grant to inflation will occur.

Provided that answer is forthcoming, I’m certainly prepared to move forward in support of this particular amendment. However, the minister has introduced those other topics, and I would like that direct answer.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   With respect to the regulations, they’ve already been changed and are in place. I’m sure the member has a copy that was delivered to her office along with the other regulations. On Thursday, March 13, at second reading — I’d encourage the member to go back and review Hansard where I clearly indicated that we are also increasing the pioneer utility grant against inflation, and regulations to approve these changes will allow for this 25-percent increase to the base amount of the pioneer utility grant. It will come into effect October 1, 2003, and will increase the base amount of the grant from $600 to $750 per eligible household. That increase will help the seniors and assist them with the rising utility costs.

That was done on March 13, 2003. I’d encourage the member opposite to go back and read Hansard.

Ms. Duncan:   In regard to the indexing to inflation that I made reference to earlier, the platform document does not say "index to inflation" and that was the clarity I noted the minister had made in the Legislature. Can I have the date of the regulation change, please, when it was passed by Cabinet?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   The order-in-council was signed on March 4 by the Commissioner.

Chair:   Is there any further general debate?

We’ll then proceed line by line.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   I move that Bill No. 21, Act to Amend the Pioneer Utility Grant Act, be reported out without amendment.

Chair:   It has been moved by Mr. Jenkins that Bill No. 21, Act to Amend the Pioneer Utility Grant Act, be reported without amendment.

Chair:   We will now continue with Bill No. 4, First Appropriation Act, 2003-04, with the Department of Health and Social Services. Mr. Fairclough has the floor.

Mr. Fairclough:   It seems like we have been debating the Department of Health all through the sitting. We keep coming back to it, and we haven’t finished it at this point. I certainly haven’t been satisfied with the answers from the member opposite, so we still have questions in regard to this department.

I know that the minister would love to have us clear this right away, but it’s not going to happen, because we haven’t been getting clear answers from the minister.

There are a lot of hidden agendas, I believe, that this government has. Saying that they are going to address the department spending trajectory for the Department of Health and Social Services is questionable simply because we know and the minister knows that this department will receive over $36 million over the next three years.

It’s a lot of money, and some of the numbers that the minister has are estimates, depending on the federal government surplus. From what I hear, these numbers that we’re getting in Health could actually rise, so many of the issues that the public is raising should be addressed by the minister and are not.

I’ve asked the minister about a number of different things. One of them was medical equipment. I think the minister was inaccurate in his response to the Red Cross medical equipment loan service. I wasn’t satisfied with the minister’s answer as to what he will do to ensure that this equipment is available to patients who need it, because as it stands right now, there’s nowhere to get a wheelchair unless you buy it. For First Nations, it’s through an application form to Ottawa, and it takes weeks. So that doesn’t happen. This equipment is stored in the basement right now and is not available to the public. But the minister said I’m wrong, so I’ll let him explain that.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Wheelchairs are provided through home care, as well as the Red Cross. As the member knows, given that he has access to the individual who has spent a great deal of time with the Red Cross on this initiative, all the Red Cross’ equipment is currently stored in the basement of the ambulance station over in Riverdale. As soon as we can locate a new facility for the Red Cross, which hopefully will come when the Thomson Centre is up and running again, we’ll have a home for the Red Cross. But until that happens, unfortunately, we’re going to have just the one source of supply for wheelchairs when they’re required on a loan-type basis, and that is through the home care program that the Yukon government has in place.

Mr. Fairclough:   Thanks for the answer, Mr. Chair, but that’s not adequate.

The Red Cross equipment is being stored. It’s not given out through loans, at this point, and hasn’t been for a year, so it’s an issue and a problem. They have been looking for a home, including the Thomson Centre, and have been turned down. I asked the minister what he is doing to ensure that this equipment is available to patients, and we haven’t received a satisfactory answer. I’m hoping the minister can make this a priority and look at a home for the Red Cross medical equipment.

Maybe in his answer to my next question he can answer that too.

In regard to seniors and elders, there was a housing study done. Can the minister give us an update on the seniors housing study?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Chair, the department has not done a housing study for seniors.

Mr. Fairclough:   Well, it was started and I just wanted a simple update to it. Government has looked at doing a study on seniors housing. It may have been done in conjunction with Yukon Housing Corporation. I’m surprised that the minister has no knowledge that any work has been done on this.

Would the minister look into it and give me any information in writing?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Let me help the member opposite. I’d encourage him to address his questions to the Yukon Housing Corporation, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Fairclough:   No commitment — this is seniors housing. The minister is basically trying to avoid his responsibilities once again, in my view. It’s interesting that the minister says this, because several times, on this side of the House, members don’t know exactly who is responsible for certain issues. They refer to another minister, so we wait for the department to come up and, guess what? They refer it back to the original minister who sent them on. It doesn’t make sense.

If it’s seniors, the minister needs to deal with it. There’s no need to hide from it. Look into the matter and forward the information. It’s as simple as that. It’s not going to break the minister to do that, or any of the staff, for that matter.

I’d like to ask a question in regard to alcohol and drugs. I did get some information back on the briefing of March 28 from the member opposite, but the minister said — I don’t have the quotes in front of me, they’re probably in the Blues somewhere — in regard to the course with alcohol and drug services, when it comes to aftercare, a degree course could have been offered at Yukon College, but they don’t have anyone with the training to put on this course. But in fact, the department has spent all kinds of money and energy on this matter. They’ve worked with Yukon College; they’ve identified the people who can put it on; everything was a go, and the only thing it needed was the approval of the minister, and that hasn’t happened.

Now we’ve gone backwards. We’ve moved away from the strategy from alcohol and drugs. Just because we’ve changed the name — the alcohol and drug secretariat — the services still remain under alcohol and drug services. The whole structure is there. I know the minister is talking about stovepipes of administration, but the fact of the matter is that what was spent on alcohol and drugs, the amount of dollars, is the exact same. It’s just funnelled under the department under alcohol and drug services. It’s the same amount and maybe moved around a little bit, but when it comes to aftercare and really addressing alcohol and drug abuse and so on in the communities and how it could be best dealt with, the important components of that are left out.

The course at Yukon College is one of them, and maybe now that the minister has had time to review the question that I asked him in regard to this course, maybe we can get an update from yesterday on this, because I strongly feel that everything was in place and ready to go. Before we go on, I should ask if there is anything new on that.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Let’s just back up a little bit and let’s see where the member has asked me to head. He has asked me to cover off and provide information that should be provided through Yukon Housing Corporation. And then, with respect to the Red Cross, another stand-alone agency that does excellent work, he has asked me to address that issue.

Well, the Hospital Corporation has identified an area to the Red Cross that they could utilize at no charge for storing their equipment and dispensing their equipment on a loan basis. Because it involved stairs, the Red Cross rejected this area.

There has also been an opportunity to house this equipment in the Thomson Centre but, unfortunately, due to poor construction techniques, the Thomson Centre is still shut down, Mr. Chair. The Red Cross, I’m given to understand, has also, on its own, identified other areas where they could house their equipment, but unfortunately that has not come to fruition either.

When we’re dealing with the Red Cross, Mr. Chair, it is hopeful that, when the Thomson Centre is up and running again, we’ll find a suitable home to house the loan equipment that they so readily make available to individuals who need assistance here in the Yukon.

Now let’s get on to the Yukon College, for which I’m also asked to provide information on, and the drug and alcohol counselling. If we go back to 1999-2000, drug and alcohol services explored the potential of the development of an addiction workers program at Yukon College. The past supervisor of alcohol and drug services provided technical advice to Yukon College regarding the course curriculum that would be required for such a course. The department was also prepared to explore the possibility of departmental staff being able to instruct such a program. The department also considered sponsoring staff attendance at appropriate addiction courses as part of the departmental training plan for alcohol and drug services employees. At the time, Yukon College was seeking core funding for the initiative and, as a consequence, dropped the initiative when core funding could not be obtained.

In October 2002, the previous alcohol and drug secretariat entered into a contribution agreement in the amount of $21,730 for the development of a Yukon College addictions certification program.

The funding was to be used for the development of course curriculum. It was to be connected to either Medicine Hat College and/or the University of Lethbridge, which were explored as they had existing programs in this field. However, the connection was dependent upon having an instructor with a master’s degree in the field of addictions available to deliver the courses. In the absence of having someone with those qualifications, Yukon College is now focusing on a more general certificate program that will start in the fall of this year. The community service workers program will now include coursework in addictions. This program will address an immediate need in Yukon, specifically in the communities, Mr. Chair.

So I trust that is the answer that the member opposite is looking for, and I don’t know why the member wants to belabour this issue. We are making best efforts to provide, through Yukon College, a community service workers program that will include coursework in addictions. That program, I am delighted to say, Mr. Chair, will commence this fall.

Mr. Fairclough:   Well, if the minister listened to the questions, he would know why I’m asking them. If he read his own answers and maybe talked it over with the department, he’d know that maybe his answers were not totally accurate. For example, the minister said there was no identified group to take the course — to take this course, there’s no identified group. The minister said that in regard to the diploma course that we’ve been talking about for the last couple of days: there’s no identified group. How can he say that, since all workers in the social and health field in all the communities have been asking for this type of training for years?

As a matter of fact, alcohol and drug services have gone out to the community for years to try to fill this gap — for years. This was all part of the strategy in dealing with this directly in communities. The minister feels that other avenues will take care of this, but this was a strategy that communities felt comfortable with in bringing this course forward to Yukon College. I am surprised that this minister says that there is no identified group to take the course. He also said that there is no identified area for employment for people trained in the field. Now what kind of answer is that, when all along we’ve talked about making improvements in alcohol and drug services and making improvements in the communities? The department itself has advertised right across Canada looking for people in this field.

The member also said in regard to social services — in Pelly Crossing, for example — the member doesn’t need to go on and on about that. I understand what has been said — bringing in someone trained — but the fact of the matter is that community people want to be able to deal with their own community members and they want the training. It has been shut down, basically. There is no movement by the minister in this regard at all. He feels that it is covered off somewhere else, just because there was another initiative by another government.

It’s unfortunate, because I think people felt more comfortable in maybe going in this direction, and now we are going backward.

Maybe the minister would like to make a comment on that: first, his comments about no identified area of employment for people trained in the field — maybe he would like to take back his words in that regard — and no identified group that would take the course. Those were his words and if he doesn’t believe them, look it up in the Blues.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Mr. Chair, it’s interesting how half the information can make it to the floor of this House, but the other half that’s very important doesn’t. No identification of individuals to take this degree course — the key is "degree", Mr. Chair, and there were no meetings scheduled. Currently, the Government of Yukon employs about 12 individuals. The other discussion that ensued around this initiative was that the Yukon government would guarantee positions at the end of the time, when these individuals would have this degree. Given that the staff complement had been filled, government could not make that commitment, nor did it.

Mr. Fairclough:   I would like the minister to look into this matter a little more carefully, talk with the department. It’s all about aftercare. It’s all about doing more in communities for people. I don’t believe that going back to an old system is addressing the situation. That’s why there was a change.

So I ask the member to go back and check with his department and, if there’s anything new, to let us know, because people are asking me and that’s why I’m asking the questions of the minister.

I would like answers so I can take clear information back to my constituents and those who are interested in health and the alcohol and drug field, of whom there are many.

I would like to ask one question with regard to Tatlmain Lake. Are there any plans for this department to channel some resources — other than some of the people who have gone there to do workshops and so on — to ensure that Tatlmain Lake is up and running as a viable centre for alcohol and drug treatment and other types of treatment for community members, be they First Nation or other?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   As I indicated previously, Mr. Chair, the department is providing staff to the facility at Tatlmain Lake. As well, under the health investment fund, there is a proposal coming forward for funding, but the member also knows full well that the First Nations have a concurrent jurisdiction in this area and we are there as a backup. Although we respect and work directly on a government-to-government basis with First Nations in these areas, they do have concurrent jurisdiction.

Mr. Fairclough:   This is an important matter. The Northern Tutchone, who basically run Tatlmain Lake, have been asking for government help and have been directed in different directions to programs within government, but there’s no real commitment. Whether they’re First Nation or not, this government has a responsibility to ensure services are for all people in the Yukon. I haven’t seen that commitment to this particular place.

As far as staffing goes, this was toward a youth program out at Tatlmain Lake, and I believe that’s done now for the year. I might be wrong. It may go on for a couple more weeks or so, but that was one small section that they were able to do. But it’s not a program that is ongoing, and that’s the unfortunate part. It’s more or less a one-time program, and what people want to see is some stability or certainty. The minister said that this was a high priority in dealing with alcohol and drugs, and we want to see that. The community wants to see that, and they want to see this government get more involved in what communities are trying to do. I would think this is an excellent opportunity for the minister to work with communities to even take the pressure off government in dealing with this matter. It’s locally driven; it’s locally designed, and you can’t get any better than that.

So let’s not ignore it. I’m hoping that the minister can commit to meeting, perhaps, with the three chiefs who are involved in Tatlmain Lake and who are involved with the Northern Tutchone Council, sit down and work out a deal with them. I know it’s their desire. I’m not sure if they called a meeting with the minister yet, but I’m certainly hoping that the minister can commit to that and look seriously at this, be prepared to do his homework, be prepared to make some type of commitment to them and not have talks go on and on and on like they have done in the past and not have decisions made without first consulting them.

Would the minister do that? At least would he commit to meeting with the Northern Tutchone Council chiefs and try to work out a deal with them?

I know this has been raised with the minister.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   As the member opposite knows full well, the First Nations have concurrent jurisdiction in this area of health care with the Government of Yukon. With their final agreements, they could draw down their powers at any time. With respect to Tatlmain Lake, this was, again, a federal government funding initiative for the set-up — some hundreds of thousands of dollars, I am given to understand, flowed to this initiative, and Yukon has been there to help with staffing and meeting some programs.

As a government, we are quite prepared to meet at any mutually convenient time with First Nation representatives to address the health care issue, but the member knows full well where the jurisdiction lies and who is responsible. It is primarily a federal government jurisdiction and responsibility with Yukon there to represent the federal government.

Mr. Fairclough:   Well, I have heard this from the minister quite often. The minister, if he is true to his word — I don’t think that is unparliamentary — said that alcohol and drugs programming is a priority. If that is so, then they would address it — if there is a will. There is the big difference, I guess. You can always say that the federal government is responsible for this, that and the other, but sometimes it is not enough. When First Nations work with the federal government, it is difficult enough to try to get any funding out of them — as it is for the Yukon government to get funding out of them.

There are some organizations that they can and have been going to. This government has showed some commitment to Tatlmain Lake. I don’t know if the minister knows, but in regard to community development fund, $130,000 went there. This is to build up some of the facilities that are there, and the fact is it is there, it’s almost complete. They need some work on the kitchen. It’s isolated, nobody can run away from this centre, and it’s an excellent opportunity for people to really feel what it’s like to be outdoors and in the wilderness and, at the same time, receive quality counselling. The First Nations have worked long and hard on this, getting people trained outside of the territory. They have the people in place. All they need is operating monies, and the Yukon government should not be hiding behind the federal government when it comes to this matter.

Now, the minister and the Yukon Party government have gone partway in addressing this through the community development fund. All I’m asking is if the minister can sit down and talk with the chiefs. That wasn’t even a commitment there. I’m hoping that the minister would do that, because I know that meeting is going to be called for.

I asked this of the minister before. Other departments may be funding treatment centres around the territory, but where is the priority when it comes to community treatment centres that the government is putting their money on? First Nations are the ones that are really leading in this area. Is the minister at all treating this as a priority? Will we see future funding going toward treatment centres in these smaller communities?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Mr. Chair, the question has been asked and answered. I refer the member back to Hansard in order to expedite the business of the House.

Mr. Fairclough:   Well, Mr. Chair, from day to day we have seen changes in this House coming from that minister. When I asked the minister about the amount of money that’s coming from the federal government, one day it’s this amount, the next day it’s another amount. As a matter of fact, in one day it went up $4.5 million. I wonder what it would be today if I asked the minister to provide some updated information to this side of the House. Will we see another increase? Do we have to ask these questions all the time to get an update? I think not. I think the minister can flow the information freely to members on this side of the House.

I know the member is bothered by these questions, but it’s his duty as minister to answer them. If I ask a question that’s similar to that, there’s nothing wrong with that. If the minister wants to give an answer that’s the same as the one he had before to a slightly different question, we have to deal with those answers, Mr. Chair. So far, we haven’t gotten a clear answer from the member opposite. There seems to be a lot of hiding and a lot of blaming other parties and governments and no real commitment, even though this department has all kinds of money in place to deal with issues in communities.

It’s unfortunate, but I guess communities have to gear up and do a huge lobby effort to the minister to make anything work.

I asked this question before too — maybe not the exact same question — in regard to community nursing. The problem that Yukon is facing is huge. We need to attract nurses and doctors to the territory. At the present time, do we have a shortage of nurses in the communities, and which communities are they?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Mr. Chair, we currently have nine vacancies across the Yukon. As to what communities they’re in, they’re currently being staffed with auxiliary on-call and auxiliary workers.

Mr. Fairclough:   Certainly the nurses in some of the communities have been working long hours and are facing a lot of stress in their lives when it comes to having to work these hours and the types of jobs they have to do.

I asked the minister to give us a plan that he has for attracting nurses and doctors. We have been talking in this department for over a month. I have asked the question in the supplementary budget. I would like to know how much work has progressed since. Do we now have a detailed plan in place? What can I take back to my constituents to say that the Yukon government is proceeding in the right manner or making an effort to ensure that we are competitive with, say, Alaska, with our neighbouring provinces of B.C. and Alberta, and the Northwest Territories, of course, and with the northern states where a lot of our nurses seem to be going? What can I bring back to them that’s new to ensure that Yukon will not be left short when it comes to attracting nurses and doctors to the territory?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Let me share the following information with the member opposite, Mr. Chair. Currently there’s $135,000 available for training for refresher courses, nursing education and post-basic specialty courses. There is $10,000 available to support the Yukon Advisory Committee on Nursing. This committee makes recommendation to the minister regarding recruitment and retention. There is also a budget of approximately $600,000 for nursing recruitment and retention bonuses paid to registered nurses in the Yukon, and that sum includes $186,000 for the registered nurses at the Whitehorse General Hospital.

In the Department of Health and Social Services, all nurses, including flight nurses — the Yukon Registered Nurses Association registration is paid; that’s $428 per year. The eligibility for recruitment and retention bonus is some $3,000 per year for RNs and $6,000 per year for CNPs. This is pro-rated for auxiliary on-call nurses, and CPR training is provided. And community nursing and all nurses — the Yukon Registered Nurses Association registration is paid. Again, it’s $428 per year. Again, there’s the eligibility for recruitment and retention bonuses — $3,000 per year for registered nurses and $6,000 per year for community nurse practitioners. Again, this is pro-rated for auxiliary on-call nurses. There is CPR and TDG — transportation of dangerous goods is what it stands for — and training for ILS, intermediate life support, provided. Nursing staff have access to professional development opportunities, including but not limited to BTLS, or basic trauma life support, and PALS, or pediatric advanced life support, and ACLS, or advanced cardiac life support.

Community nursing supports further training needs, if required. Primary care skills program — which is a three-month university-based course, plus a six-week Yukon practicum — full salary, accommodations, travel, tuition, books provided on condition of return of service — and a community health certificate, which is a university distance learning program — tuition and books, which are provided on condition of return of service.

For community nursing auxiliary on-calls, the Yukon Registered Nurses Association registration is paid — again, it is $428 per year — and the eligibility for recruitment and retention — $3,000 per year for registered nurses and $6,000 per year for community nurse practitioners. This is pro-rated for auxiliary on-call nurses. Again, CPR, TDG and ILS training is provided. Nursing staff have access to professional development opportunities that include, but are not limited to, to BTLS, PALS and ACLS. Community nursing support further training needs is provided, if required — a primary care skills program, which is a three-month university-based course plus a six-week practicum; full salary, accommodations, travel, tuition and books are provided on condition of return of service.

For a community health certificate — which is a university distance learning program — tuition and books are provided on condition of return of services. If auxiliary on-call nurses live outside of the Yukon, they are on full travel status from point of departure — i.e. it could be Toronto or any other place — to Whitehorse and to their final destination. They are paid flight or mileage up to economy airfare. Transportation is provided to assigned communities. Accommodations are provided in assigned communities. There are all of the benefits, such as satellite TV, $18 per day toward meal costs while on assignment, and assignments are scheduled according to their availability.

The department has used a number of ongoing recruitment initiatives. In the past, we’ve participated in 14 job fairs per year throughout Canada — seven in western Canada and seven in eastern Canada — follow-up on all referrals from other nurses. The department has monthly advertisements in Canadian Nurse magazine, bimonthly advertisements in Health Beat, participation in MedHunters.com, an on-line agency that provides Internet addresses for nurses meeting the required qualifications, and we have an Internet recruitment Web site and continuous competitions. We also have practicum placements for university and college nursing students here in the Yukon.

So, when you add them all up, it’s a pretty good package. Currently the nurses are in the process of negotiations and they’ll probably be more forthcoming as a consequence of those negotiations, Mr. Chair.

Still, we fully recognize that we’re in an international marketplace. Health care providers are in short supply around the world and we have a need. We don’t have the ability to set up courses here to the level to provide the degree-granting ability at the levels we require, so we’re going to have to rely on other institutions with this multitude of programs and benefits that are currently in place and could possibly be enhanced as a consequence of the collective bargaining process.

Mr. Fairclough:   What the minister said is nothing new — basically carrying on with what the previous government did — although the problem of attracting nurses and doctors to the territory is getting worse.

Regarding people leaving the territory, is the department looking at increasing the per diem given to patients sent Outside for treatment and diagnosis?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Before we go on to that area, Mr. Chair, I’d like to correct the member. We are not getting worse as far as recruitment and retention of health care providers to the Yukon. Last year, there were 14 positions being recruited; currently there are nine, so progress has been made.

As far as physicians, we have a lifestyle here that has attracted quite a number of physicians to the Yukon. GPs are here but some of the specialty physicians are difficult to recruit, and they’re being worked on. Overall, improvements have been made over this last period of time.

Mr. Fairclough:   The minister didn’t answer my question, Mr. Chair. What I was referring to by the situation getting worse is not here in the territory; it’s overall in Canada and the fact that the U.S. is also looking at our graduates here in Canada. For the Yukon that makes it even tougher, because there are fewer people who could be attracted to the territory if other packages look better in, say, the United States or other parts of Canada.

I can’t find the numbers I had with regard to nurses across Canada but the numbers are staggering. We produce something like 5,000 students per year out of our universities and, in three years, we’re looking at the need for something like 30,000 nurses.

That’s a huge number. Over the next three years, we’re going to have problems, and that’s why I’m asking these questions. If we took into account the fact that they would retire earlier, at the age of 55, that number almost doubles over the next three years. With the U.S. attracting our nurses and with the few we produce in Canada, we will have a problem. That’s why I keep going back to this, because it should not be shrugged off. I think this department needs to pay some serious attention to it — not just for this year but for coming years.

I don’t know if the minister wants to respond to this first, but I asked him this question the last time: in regard to patients who are sent Outside for treatment and diagnosis, is the minister looking at increasing their per diems?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   If we could just back up a minute and look at the treatment that the Yukon is providing to the nurses and nurse practitioners and other health care providers here in the Yukon, it has been the experience that a number of nurses have left for the U.S. and have subsequently returned to the Yukon, and it’s more a factor of lifestyle here, as well as the wage and benefit program that exists. Progress is being made and has been made over the last fiscal period, Mr. Chair, as to the number of health care providers that we are —

The government a short time ago recognized the shortage of nurses, and that was the main reason why the Yukon Advisory Committee on Nursing was established, and the government is working with that committee on long-term solutions. We’ve achieved some short-term solutions, and we’re looking at the long term. But I do agree with the member opposite that there is a worldwide shortage of health care providers, and we’re doing our level best to provide wage and benefit incentives that will attract health care professionals to the Yukon.

Also underway is a primary health care review that will take place in the not-too-distant future, and I’m sure there will be input at that level as to perhaps how we can structure existing organizations to better serve the health care needs of all Yukoners, Mr. Chair.

With respect to per diems for travel, we haven’t budgeted for any increase in this next fiscal cycle.

Mr. Fairclough:   Did the minister say the next fiscal cycle or the one we’re presently in? I don’t believe it’s a huge dollar amount and I encourage the minister to look at that increase.

The other thing with regard to nurses — and I’ve made this suggestion before to the minister — is that if Yukon was a place for university students to do their practicum, we would have a better opportunity to showcase the Yukon and keep those nurses here who have done their practicum in the territory. That was one suggestion that was made by the nurses association and should be looked at by the minister.

Is the department looking at all at establishing a residence similar to the one in Edmonton, which has been put together for the N.W.T. patients? Is the minister looking at establishing a residence, I guess, in Vancouver for Yukon patients?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   In many respects, the programs that we have here in the Yukon to assist people to travel for medical purposes far exceed those provided in the Northwest Territories. I am sure that the member should be well aware of that.

Currently the medical travel program here in the Yukon costs the department $4,618,360. It is a very, very significant cost.

We have spoken on a government-to-government basis, and we are looking at more cooperation with the Northwest Territories. We are looking to accessing the Northwest Territories’ facility in Edmonton. There have been discussions but nothing has been concluded.

In many ways, we are more advanced as to what we pay individuals who are required to travel and per diems. There is a problem, and the member should be well aware of it and very cognizant of it. That is, under the uninsured health benefit program, the federal government is attempting, in many respects, to back out of their obligations to the First Nations in this area. I am sure that is going to probably end up being seen as a downloading from the federal government to the Government of Yukon in many of these areas. But at the end of the day, it would appear that the federal government is backing out of its fiduciary responsibilities to First Nations in many of the areas here in the Yukon — or attempting to, Mr. Chair.

I think all parties must be cognizant and join together and recognize this and join forces with our First Nations and firmly address this issue with the federal government.

Mr. Fairclough:   Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the answer from the minister opposite. That’s something new, I suppose, in working with the Northwest Territories in regard to this particular residence in Edmonton. Many of our patients go to Vancouver, and that’s why I asked about that. So the minister says that really nothing is taking place to look at something similar there. Perhaps the minister can have some discussions with the Northwest Territories and jointly plan on a residence in Vancouver, because I believe a lot of their patients go there too.

In regard to women who are in the last stage of their pregnancy, First Nations send them here to Whitehorse to spend the last two weeks before giving birth in a hotel. For non-native people, that is not the case. They’re basically flipping the bill. Is this Yukon Party government looking at taking care of the bill for pregnant women who have to come into Whitehorse for the final two weeks of their pregnancy?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   This is an issue that is being worked on. I can advise the member opposite that the department has just recently received a proposal from the Victoria Faulkner Women’s Centre in regard to providing accommodations to a mother-to-be and her time period here in Whitehorse awaiting the arrival of her child.

Mr. Fairclough:   So is the minister saying that the Yukon government will possibly provide space in Whitehorse for women who live outside Whitehorse in the final two weeks of their pregnancy?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   We haven’t concluded anything, Mr. Chair, but let’s just call it work underway. Perhaps, come this next year, I’ll have more to report in this area but it is an undertaking that we have committed to. I can’t report any major progress to date but it’s being worked on.

Mr. Fairclough:   I’m glad to hear that it’s being worked on because I think this is an important matter. Obviously it is a relief for pregnant women to be in Whitehorse where they know there is a good facility to accommodate them. First Nations have worked toward that and I don’t think we should have two different standards here.

So, if the department can make this a priority and get something going quickly, then certainly we, on this side of the House, would support it. Even if it were to come as part of a supplementary budget for the department or if they could find it within and announce it through a news release, that’s something that we, on this side of the House, would fully support.

I would like to ask the minister if his government is looking at privatization in any part of health care in the Yukon.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Mr. Chair, as the member well knows, the largest component in the health care system is basically privatized, and that’s all the doctors in private practice.

Mr. Fairclough:   Well, we all understand that, but there has been a bit of a movement in the past, even with the Liberals in regard to the CT scan, for example, to privatize that. Is there any interest or willingness — a direction, I guess — on the part of the Yukon Party government to move to privatize any other areas, I guess I could say, in health care in the Yukon?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Mr. Chair, I’m not aware of any. None have crossed my desk. There are initiatives underway. I don’t know if the member opposite deems that if we were to enter into an agreement with an NGO for the provision of accommodations for a mother-to-be as being privatizing the health care system. I don’t know how or what definition of "privatizing" the member is looking at.

What currently exists exists. There is a primary health care review underway in the not-too-distant future. Stakeholder groups representing approximately 100 have been invited to participate, and perhaps the member opposite, if he sees an opportunity, Mr. Chair, to identify where we could better the quality of service by privatizing something, could identify it to this review panel and let them bring it forward.

Mr. Fairclough:   Well, if there is a commitment by this government to do that, all the minister needs to say is that it’s going to be done.

The public is interested in it. They want to know what exactly is taking place, what discussions are happening without them, because certainly this is not being discussed openly. Are we going to see a two-tier health care system in the Yukon? Is it supported by the Yukon Party government? We’ve seen it come very close in regard to the CT scan here in Whitehorse. We could have had this service privatized, and the public wants to know if we are heading down the same road as Alberta. Are we going to hold our own? Is the Yukon Party interested at all in the two-tier health care system? If so, what is it? Bring some information out.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Our government is committed to providing the best level of health care possible to the residents of the Yukon. That’s where we are at.

Mr. Fairclough:   Well, the minister is avoiding the question, so we will just leave it at that. There is a reason why, I suppose.

I would like to ask a simple question: why is family and children's services down by 22 percent? Does the minister have a plan in place? Why is there a cut by 22 percent in family and children's services?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   The largest reduction in this area is because the uptake on the daycare subsidies wasn’t what was anticipated. This comes about as a consequence of the tremendous downturn of the economy and the exodus of over 3,000 individuals. We are operating daycare facilities at less than capacity. We are running schools at 40- or 50-percent capacity. We are running a whole series of facilities here in the Yukon at considerably less than capacity.

Under the previous administration, the anticipation was that the uptake on the subsidies for day homes and daycares were going to be a certain value and that did not materialize. Our government is working with the day home and daycare operators. As recently identified, another $230,000 is flowing through. The good work of our government should be in place very, very quickly, retroactive to April 1 of this year.

That determination of how these funds will flow has been made by the daycare and day home operators in conjunction with officials from the department, but it’s going to be underway very, very quickly. This is not on the subsidy side. This is on the direct operating grant, Mr. Chair, and this money will end up flowing directly through to the workers, resulting in an increase in wages, depending on their salary category, from a couple of dollars a day up to, I believe, $9 or $10 a day, overall.

We’re making progress. We’re still going to be meeting with the operators of the daycare and day homes, and we have a long-term strategy that, hopefully, over the six-month period we’ll end up with a better method of funding these operations, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Fairclough:   Is the minister saying to the childcare providers that the $115,000 going toward their wages is an adequate increase to their wages, or is this being addressed further by the department?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   The way the approach was made to me and the department, Mr. Chair, is that childcare is in crisis in the Yukon, and it required an immediate cash infusion. The exercise we went through was how to put the money into the system so that it ended up where it was needed, and that was in the wage and benefit package for the actual employees in the facilities.

So that exercise has been undertaken, and this, as I have stated previously, is a six-month window only. That is only to address the short term. That commences April 1 of this year, and we will have in place a new system six months from April 1 that will examine the whole issue of childcare and the subsidies, either through the direct operating grant, equipment, and how this money is going to flow. So that is work underway.

We have a lot of areas that we have to address as a government, but unfortunately we have the time constraint of only having been in office a short period of time, and we have made considerable progress but still have a ways to go.

Mr. Fairclough:   I look forward to seeing a review or a report produced by the department to have this addressed six months from now, or six months from the beginning of the fiscal year, to see how improvements can be made to childcare providers. The minister says that the money that has been announced is to address this issue for six months. I’m sure that this is appreciated by those involved with our children and the taking care of our children. I’ll just leave this one for now. I have lots of questions when it comes to childcare. Maybe at a different time I would ask them.

In regard to social workers in the regions, do they have to have a master of social work to work in communities?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   A social worker is required to have a bachelor degree. The department doesn’t require a secondary degree of a master’s. The level below social workers has to have a diploma in that field.

Mr. Fairclough:   I know this is of concern to some of the community people, since they have frontline workers who have been working with the communities, family and children's services, and so on. When it comes to jobs that are created by Yukon government, they are bumped off the list, even though they probably are the best ones to handle this job, but they don’t have the proper schooling behind them to do it.

I would like to ask the minister this, how many bachelor of social work graduates from Yukon College are presently working in the communities?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   I have no idea.

Mr. Fairclough:   Let’s make it easier. Approximately what percentage of those graduates from the bachelor of social work program is working in communities? I know that the minister must have the numbers there — the big black book has everything in it.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   That’s a personnel issue, and we don’t have the details available as to the level of training that everyone across the Yukon in the department has. It’s an issue that probably we want to avoid because it would identify quite a number of individuals.

But if the member, in his next career move, which is obvious from his interest in this field, is interested in a degree or diploma in social work, in social services, I would be happy to obtain the information as to how he can peruse this activity.

Mr. Fairclough:   The minister should know this. It is a big part of the department. It is an area that needs addressing and the minister doesn’t know it. It’s in his big, black book, Mr. Chair. We, on this side of the House, are interested. We want to know who is being hired in the communities and how much uptake this department is giving to what is being offered in Yukon College. The bachelor of social work has been around for a number of years now. We would like to know, so if the minister could forward some of that information to us on this side of the House, we’d appreciate it.

In regard to the health investment fund, this has been cut by some 50 percent. I would like to know why.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   With respect to the academic qualifications of the staff in the department, I don’t believe it appropriate to provide the member opposite with that information.

With respect to the health investment fund, $100,000 currently exists in the fund and that has been added to the existing budget, so we are right where we should be, Mr. Chair, or want to be.

Mr. Fairclough:   Well, the minister has changed his ways from this side of the House to that side of the House. I recall the minister asking questions of the Community Services minister about mosquito larvicide. Three days of debate about numbers, its effects, different uses and so on.

Now, when he’s asked a question that affects his department directly, requesting information that I know he should know, he refuses to answer. If I ask the same question to the Minister of Tourism, I’ll bet you I’ll get an answer, because I believe the minister didn’t do his homework in this regard.

The minister said that there was $100,000 added in. I asked why it was cut by some 50 percent. I really didn’t get an answer why. Is it simply because there are monies there, or what’s the rationale behind cutting it by 50 percent?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Mr. Chair, there was $100,000 remaining in the program from last year. When that is added back in, we arrive at a number that we can live with.

Mr. Hardy:   Forgive me if I ask a question that has already been asked. I’ve been in and out of the Legislature for gathering up papers, so I might have missed something here, and if that’s the case, then I’d appreciate it if the minister would just inform me that it’s the exact same question, and I can look it up in Hansard and we can move on very quickly.

One of the concerns I have here is the cuts, and I know my colleague had mentioned the 22-percent drop in family and children's services. In looking at the youth involved in the criminal system, which this would fall under in looking through the budget, it shows a 15-percent increase in that area. What is the minister planning to do with the 15-percent increase, and how is he balancing the finances in that regard?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   As the member knows, there is a new youth criminal justice system that the feds have just put in place, and there was some responsibility on the Yukon’s part to deliver the services on behalf of the federal government. A number of changes were required, and the federal government funded these changes. That is where that increase stems from; it is 100-percent funded by the feds.

Mr. Hardy:   The changes in the new act, the Youth Criminal Justice Act — my understanding is, and maybe the minister can give me his view in this area — are supposed to lessen the amount of youth who will go through the criminal system. I know that it is a Justice question, but it is connected to Health.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   As the member opposite knows, we have no control over the number of youth who go into the criminal justice system. What this new Youth Criminal Justice Act does is reduce the number of youth who are sentenced to secure custody.

Mr. Hardy:   One of the concerns in my riding is the increased amount of drug use in the downtown area. I think that can — how should I say this? The numbers that we see in the drug usage in downtown Whitehorse are connected to the communities as well, because many youth do come from the communities and move into Whitehorse and try to live here as best they can.

However, a lot of them also become victims of an element in our society that we are always trying to deal with and that is a huge burden to our system, and that is drug usage.

Now, we’ve seen an increase in the drug usage. What resources is the minister planning to put into this area as we see a growing concern and a growing need for resources to address the drug usage?

He may think this is a general or vague question, but what I’m trying to do is get a picture of where this new government is going in education around drug usage. What plans does the minister have in that area, as well as the prevention and treatment areas that may be available? Is anything being planned in this budget, or is this something we may see over the next couple of budgets?

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   Mr. Chair, as the member opposite knows, we have a drug problem in the Yukon, which he has clearly identified. It’s quite tragic. I’ve asked my officials to get together with the enforcement end and look at ways to increase enforcement.

We haven’t gone down the road in that area very far as of yet, but it’s an area that is going to be earmarked for a high priority. Our main focus, as a department, is concentrating on the results of drug and alcohol use and abuse. That said, I would agree with the member opposite that more on the prevention and enforcement side is required, and we will be seriously looking at that area.

It is not an area that the Department of Health alone can deal with. It crosses over the bounds of several departments in government, primarily Justice.

We have identified it as a problem area and instructions have gone out. I’m hopeful that we can report some new undertaking or at least some progress in this area. One only has to wander down to the riverbank and see the number of discarded needles to know and recognize that we have a serious problem. It’s a well-known fact that you can go downtown Whitehorse and buy any type of drug, currently the most popular types of drugs, faster than you can purchase a six-pack of beer. So, Mr. Chair, that’s the nature of the problem that we have to address and deal with, not just at a department level but society has to deal with the problem. It’s a problem in our society.

Mr. Hardy:   The minister opposite mentioned needles and he’s very correct, but it’s not just on the riverbank as he well knows. The other day, I was walking to work early in the morning and I met one of our councillors on the street. He informed me of the trails that run back in behind the clay cliffs and recommended that I take a walk back there. He walks back there with his dog on a regular basis and said he spends a fair amount of time picking up needles — and I’m sure he takes precautions to do so. I decided to take a walk back there as well and there’s no question about it. There are many spots within the clay cliffs where there is extensive partying and I did encounter needles. As a matter of fact, the needle situation is so prevalent within our society and definitely within the City of Whitehorse — three weeks ago I pulled up in front of Rogers Video, in a clean parking lot in a very public place, and when I opened the door of my vehicle and looked out to step out, there was a discarded needle right there in the parking lot.

There is no question that the minister is correct; the needle situation in this town is what I consider almost a crisis situation for many people, and it’s continuing to grow. We have to address it in some manner or some form. I also agree with the minister that it is not just one department that deals with this. It has to involve a few departments, specifically Justice as well, on the enforcement side, as well as the policing. But there is a need in our society to reach the youth as soon as possible and educate them and intervene as soon as possible to prevent them from going down this path, if we can. This is money that is well-spent. My concern in this budget is that I don’t see that reflected.

I have heard the arguments that it’s their first budget. They have only been in government for six months. I’m not going to contest that; I just want to raise this point, that every day that goes by there may be one other child, one other youth, one other person out there who becomes a victim of drug use and a victim of the people who prey on the youth. It’s a very serious situation; it involves our schools. Many of these people who get addicted end up also dropping out of school. So we have to have things on the street that can be there for those who are trying to break from that environment but also the ones who can intervene and guide them through it if they’re not ready to break through yet.

That raises a question. One of my concerns was the cancellation of the Outreach van. Just to refresh my memory, this was a federally funded van, funded by the Liberal government as one of their programs — as the minister likes to say, their boutique programs. I’ll get him to confirm that first.

Hon. Mr. Jenkins:   I am advised that the department even expressed concern, when the feds first funded, that this was going to be a problem because there wasn’t ongoing funding. The initiative of drug and drug awareness is one that we are very cognizant of as a government. It’s an issue that we know we have a long ways to go on, and it’s not just the Department of Health and Social Services — it crosses over a number of departments.

I couldn’t agree with the member more on the issue of the drug problem in our society. It starts with a little bit of pot and it goes into the drug world today. I am told that it used to be that, for ten bucks, you could get high on crack cocaine for a couple of hours, and now it is, for ten bucks, you can get high for 24 hours on some of the new designer drugs. They are more readily available than a six-pack of beer after-hours.

Yes, we have a real serious problem and it’s a problem that has been identified. It crosses over more than one department and our government will be examining ways to provide added education and added response in this area.

The member opposite is very correct that we should target the youth in our society and in the schools and deal with it at that level. There are a number of programs that are currently in place. The RCMP does have a drug awareness officer based in Whitehorse who goes into the schools and puts on various courses. But there has to be a more concentrated effort by society as a whole to look at the issue of drugs in our society.

We know those Liberals in Ottawa will probably look at decriminalizing a whole bunch of these areas in the not-too-distant future just to get more brownie points. However, at the end of the day, society has to deal with these areas and these initiatives, and we in the Department of Health and Social Services have to pick up the pieces. It’s not something that society should take for granted. It’s a serious matter — a very serious matter. We know we have a great problem with alcohol, and alcohol is on the surface and readily available. When it comes to drugs, the underground economy in narcotics is tremendous today. It’s destroying a lot of lives.

Mr. Hardy:   I agree with the minister on that. It’s definitely destroying a lot of lives. Drugs are also connected to crime. As people become addicted to drugs, their need to have it is often great, and their ability to raise funds, whether it’s work or something else, is often not there and they will resort to crime. In my riding, right at the downtown core, it’s a common sight to walk home and see people who are obviously drug users and people who are victims of crime. They’re connected, and we have to work together and resolve it — I don’t know if we can ever resolve it, but we have to work in a manner that protects our citizens and also assists those who definitely need help.

I’m really going to finish up here. I just wanted to get this out. The Outreach van was having an impact in its initial stages, and it is a crime that the federal government stopped funding that. I think the idea merits some serious consideration, and I would ask the minister to seriously consider putting some money toward this program. It was having an impact; there’s no question about it. It was very visible, and I have talked to a lot of people on the streets, and youth, and they had a lot to say about the Outreach van and were very positive about it. It meant something to them. It was a visible support for them that travelled around.

Interestingly enough, they found that to be more approachable, in many cases, than a building.

I do know that some of the organizations are doing some very good work with youth — the Blue Feather organization, of course, and the BYTE, and the Whitehorse Youth Centre is doing a tremendous amount of good work, and you only have to go there and visit it to see the assistance and help that they’re supplying, and the people who work there are tremendous. On Friday, I refereed a game that was organized by the Whitehorse Youth Centre and the RCMP, and it was wonderful to see that being brought together. It put some faces on the enforcement side with the youth side, and there was a huge uptake by the youth and a very good showing by the RCMP. Fortunately, the youth did win the game in regular time and they were quite proud of that, although the RCMP played very hard.

Some Hon. Member:   (Inaudible)

Mr. Hardy:   It was a floor hockey game. Thanks for the question. It was at the Elijah Smith School.

So those are the kinds of things that are needed, but these organizations need support, and we have to see that support in the budget and we also have to hear that support from the government side.

I’m going to finish my questions here. I’m just asking the minister to seriously consider the Outreach van and any of the other programs that the Liberal government bails