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Whitehorse, Yukon
Monday, November 1, 2004 — 1:00 p.m.
Speaker: I will now call the House to order. We will proceed at this time with prayers.
Prayers
DAILY ROUTINE
Speaker: We will proceed at this time with the Order Paper.
Tributes.
TRIBUTES
In recognition of Down’s Syndrome Awareness Week
Mr. McRobb: I rise on behalf of the official opposition in tribute to national Down’s Syndrome Awareness Week, November 1 to 7.
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Down’s syndrome is defined as an error in cell division in a fetus that results in mild to moderate mental disabilities. It occurs in about one out of 800 births on a national basis.
In the past, Down’s syndrome was misunderstood and many of those afflicted were treated badly by society. Due largely to the struggles and the hard work of parents and professionals to involve Down’s syndrome children in daily life, they are living fuller, richer lives and are contributing to society. The life expectancy of Down’s syndrome babies has increased from nine years in 1929 to beyond 50 years today.
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Many are employed and live on a semi-independent basis. Despite this progress much more can be done. Educational and economic supports are needed to fully integrate Down’s syndrome people into our daily lives. Organizations such as Community Living and Special Olympics, both nationally and here in the Yukon, provide support for parents and Down’s syndrome people.
A basic belief in the inclusion of every person in all life is central to the organizations supporting Down’s syndrome. Valuing uniqueness and differences in understanding the common humanity of everyone are lessons we can all learn from Down’s syndrome.
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Hon. Mr. Jenkins: I rise today to ask my colleagues in this House to recognize national Down’s Syndrome Awareness Week. This week is dedicated to recognizing Canadians living with Down’s syndrome and to help increase public awareness of the contribution individuals with Down’s syndrome make to our country.
Down’s syndrome is a naturally occurring chromosomal arrangement that is present in approximately one in 800 births in Canada. There are approximately 35,000 Canadians with Down’s syndrome.
With the proper support, individuals with Down’s syndrome are making important contributions to Canadian society. They are working, they are volunteering, they are attending school and they’re living independent lives. Yukoners living with Down’s syndrome make this a better place to be, adding their own unique contribution to the fabric that makes Yukon so unique as well.
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The Yukon is proud to be only one of six Canadian jurisdictions recognizing Canadians living with Down’s syndrome and those who are committed to helping those individuals reach their fullest potential, and we are proud to be counted.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
In recognition of Women Abuse Prevention Month
Mr. McRobb: Mr. Speaker, I rise on behalf of the official opposition to pay tribute to the month of November as Women Abuse Prevention Month. Spousal violence continues to be of great concern. Approximately one-quarter of all violent crimes in Canada are related to family violence. The majority of such violence to victims is perpetrated by the spouse. Eighty-five percent of all spousal violent crimes are against women. In the decade past, 617 women were killed in this country by a current or former spouse.
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The physical assault of women is, of course, a very serious matter. Women are six times more likely to be sexually assaulted than men and five times more likely than men to require medical attention as a result of an assault. Aboriginal women have much greater rates of abuse, which is totally unacceptable.
Most abuse of women occurs from within relationships where there is a situation of dependency and trust. Because of this we draw your attention to the effects of abuse on the psychological health of women. Women who are abused are more likely to experience conditions such as low self-esteem, anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts and post-traumatic stress disorder. Coping strategies such as addictions and self-destructive behaviours multiply the negative effects of physical abuse.
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But abuse of women is not only physical. Psychological abuse, which women experience far more than men, can cause many of the same psychological conditions as physical abuse.
Women are four times more likely than men to report being threatened and four times more likely to report being denied access to family income. Furthermore, the psychological effects from the abuse of women are likely to spread to children.
We pay tribute to the dedicated professionals and volunteers who are helping to cope with abuse of women. In particular, we draw the attention of the House to the transition homes in the Yukon, which continue to offer supportive services for abused women. The Victoria Faulkner Women’s Centre will once again be sponsoring a number of events this month to educate the public about Women Abuse Prevention Month.
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They will be holding workshops for older women for understanding the link between substance abuse and violence, information on legal issues, and a “lady beware” workshop with the RCMP.
We urge the members of this House and the public to attend these valuable events.
Thank you. Mahsi’ cho.
Hon. Ms. Taylor: Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today as the minister responsible for the Women’s Directorate to recognize November as Women Abuse Prevention Month.
According to a national survey, at least one out of every four women who has lived with a male partner has been abused in some way. These women are from many different backgrounds as family violence knows no social or economic bounds.
Domestic violence often follows a cycle where the same behaviours and actions are repeated in families from generation to generation. Abusers believe that violence is okay. It’s not — not ever.
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Healthy relationships are built upon equality and trust, and this year, as in the past, the Victoria Faulkner Women’s Centre is leading the public awareness campaign surrounding Women Abuse Prevention Month, an RCMP-taught self-defence class for women, bingo and movie nights for women as well as a proclamation on violence against women from our own Commissioner, Jack Cable.
In addition to the Women’s Centre’s activities, the Women’s Directorate will also be running a series of print advertisements emphasizing the message that a man’s strength is not for hurting. As well, the Women’s Directorate will be launching a CD by our local Raw Element, entitled Once Upon a Time, to target young people. Breaking the cycle of violence at a young age, before it becomes engrained in the way people deal with relationships, is one of the best ways to help stop abuse before it starts.
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As individuals, families and communities, we need to break the silence of violence, to provide support for victims, to encourage accountability for acts of harm, and to support our communities in their ability to provide education, prevention and healing.
I would also like to send out a heartfelt thanks to all the women’s organizations and the many women who volunteer their time day in and day out, including our own transition homes, the shelters that serve Yukon women and children on a day-to-day basis, for all the instrumental work that they do in raising awareness of this very serious issue confronting our territory, and for certainly providing assistance to those in need.
Ms. Duncan: I rise today on behalf of the Liberal caucus to pay tribute to Women’s Abuse Prevention Month. People call abuse of women many different things: wife battering, wife assault, domestic violence, spousal abuse, physical or mental cruelty, violence against women and assault.
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No matter what it is named, it has to end.
The minister has mentioned that a national survey done in Canada in 1994 found that one in four women have been assaulted by a current or previous intimate partner. Three-quarters of these women had also been emotionally abused.
We have many agencies to serve the women of the Yukon: the RCMP, the women’s transition homes in Whitehorse, Dawson, Watson Lake, Carmacks and Ross River; Victim Services in Whitehorse, Dawson City and Watson Lake, the Law Line, Legal Aid, First Nations court workers, counselling and support services, social assistance, the women’s advocate and the Women’s Directorate, and those are just a few.
We would like to tribute and express our thanks to these organizations and agencies, and especially the people who volunteer and who work with them.
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Thank you for your support and your efforts to end the violence. Every woman has the right to be treated with respect and to a life without violence. This month, as we heighten our awareness of this issue, let us make it a year-long, lifelong effort and end the violence.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Speaker: Are there any further tributes?
Introduction of visitors.
Are there any returns or documents for tabling?
Are there any reports of committees?
Are there any petitions?
Are there any bills to be introduced?
Are there any notices of motion?
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr. Cathers: I rise in the House today to give notice of the following motion:
THAT this House urges the Yukon government to amend the Wildlife Act to clarify that Yukon citizens who purchased elk, reindeer or bison own and have full title to those animals and their descendants.
Ms. Duncan: I give notice of the following motion:
THAT this House recognizes
(1) that the Yukon Party government, through its decision to change the rules for land applications around the City of Whitehorse, has created an unfair process for obtaining country residential lots;
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(2) that the applicants themselves are not at fault;
(3) that the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources has made the situation worse by refusing to accept responsibility for the decisions that have caused this problem; and
THAT this House urges the Yukon Party government to reject all land applications around the City of Whitehorse until a fair process for applications has been completed and appropriate consultation with all interested partners has been conducted.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Speaker: Are there any further notices of motion?
Is there a statement by a minister?
This then brings us to Question Period.
QUESTION PERIOD
Question re: Tantalus School, Yukon College campus at
Mr. Fairclough: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education. I was at the public meeting in Carmacks on Friday, and the message was clear. There is wide support for a new school, but not with a college attached. Many reasons were given for this, but because of this government’s heavy-handed decision, some of the people were saying that they would rather wait for a school until there is a government that will listen to them. I have had many people call me and come up to me, saying they were worried that they won’t get a new school at all. Is that the minister’s position, that Carmacks might not get any school at all unless they accept a school with a college campus attached? Would the Minister of Education answer that for me?
Hon. Mr. Fentie: As the Minister of Education was not present at the meeting, I will respond to the Member for Mayo-Tatchun’s question.
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I must say I was very pleased to be able to attend this meeting in the community. I thank the Little Salmon-Carmacks First Nation for hosting me on their traditional territory, and I would like to respond to the member opposite by pointing out some things that were very evident in the meeting.
A number of the respondents or presenters were focused on social issues, Mr. Speaker, and I of course assured them that these types of issues are something we can address not only within our educational system but, more importantly, outside of our education system.
Secondly, there was clear evidence that, for the First Nation, this was also a financial issue, and I assured the First Nation that our presence, financially, in the existing administration building would not be diminished — quite the contrary. Given the fact that the First Nation has requested this government to look into a Yukon River management plan and arrange a program, I would submit to you in this House and to the First Nation that our financial presence will, in all likelihood, increase with Little Salmon-Carmacks.
Mr. Fairclough: I thank the Premier for answering that question. At least we’re getting some answers. The Minister of Education certainly doesn’t want to do it, but the Premier did skirt around the question, and I’m hoping he can focus on it.
About 60 people were at Friday’s meeting. Many of them spoke up. Only a few of them were in favour of combining the new Tantalus School with the College campus. That option clearly does not have widespread community support, and the Premier knows that.
This question is directed to the minister. The minister overruled this joint building advisory committee that he created. That was the cause of this mess. He breached an intergovernmental agreement he signed with the First Nation. Surely the minister is capable of admitting he was wrong.
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Will the hon. minister now honour his signed commitment with the advisory committee and the First Nation and base his final decision on what that committee has asked him to do?
Hon. Mr. Fentie: This issue pertains to the meeting on Friday in the community of Carmacks. There were a number of individuals present. It certainly did not reflect the majority of the citizens of Carmacks. I’m sure there are upwards of 300-plus people that live in the community.
I think it’s important to recognize that the planning committee itself had entered into an arrangement with the department and the minister to provide recommendations on building a new school in a community, in this case Carmacks, where a new school is badly needed.
Also, they were discussing — they were discussing at great length — during this year-long process about the combining of the campus with the school and they were discussing areas of concern that we could mitigate. I think evidence of that came forward at the meeting. The concerns of interaction between young people and adults who may be attending a college campus can certainly be dealt with scheduling and how access is gained to a college campus and/or indeed a school.
But I think the most important point is the presentation from the government side, vis-à-vis myself, that we need to start talking about the positives that can be gleaned from building a learning institution in the community of Carmacks.
Mr. Fairclough: Well, the community of Carmacks does have one, with all the latest technology that government and the College demands of it.
I ask the Minister of Education to answer this question — and this issue wasn’t as a result of the community meeting in Carmacks. The minister knows that.
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The Premier knows that as a result of the minister’s decision to overrule and override the First Nation and its own committees.
Mr. Speaker, this minister has a take-it-or-leave-it attitude and way of doing things, and that is shameful. How dare the minister come to the community of Carmacks and tell them what is best for them? More than 30 years ago, there were ministers who thought they knew best. Children were taken out of their homes and put into mission schools. Now this minister thinks he knows what is best for the people in Carmacks. That is a step backwards some 30 years. Many parents have threatened to pull their children out of school if the minister sticks to his decision. Is that what the minister wants — a school that has no students because the minister insisted he knew best? Can the minister answer that?
Hon. Mr. Fentie: Again this relates specifically to the discussion held with me — not the minister — in the community of Carmacks last Friday.
And the member has brought something else up that came out in the meeting, and that is the issue of residential schools. And I would caution the member opposite, the MLA for this riding, to think carefully about that statement and how that correlates to building a new learning institution in a community that is for the benefit of all the citizens within a public education system.
I would submit, Mr. Speaker, that another issue came forward in the meeting on Friday, and that is division in the community. This division is being exacerbated by this type of comment coming forward from the Member for Mayo-Tatchun. There is no place in the building of this learning institution for this long-standing, deep-rooted problem that all governments must work on — the residential school issue — all governments being First Nation, federal and Yukon. However, in this case in the community, the minister is advancing what is a very needed initiative, a new school and college for all the people of Carmacks, and that is our obligation, that is our duty, that is what we will carry out.
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Question re: Tantalus School, Yukon College campus at
Mr. Hardy: I’m actually quite shocked at what the Premier just said — an accusation he made to my colleague. I cannot believe the words that just came out of his mouth and what he is accusing my colleague of doing, when he’s trying to represent the people of his community. Maybe that Premier better think very carefully about what he’s saying, because that kind of language goes back 40 or 50 years in the white man’s way of looking at how you treat First Nations.
On Thursday my colleagues and I pointed out numerous instances where this government wasn’t listening to people. On Friday the Premier was in Carmacks; he has referenced that a few times. Nearly 60 people showed up and spoke against the government’s plan to incorporate the Yukon College campus into the new school.
Judging from the radio coverage, it doesn’t sound like the Premier really heard what was being said up there. As a matter of fact, he’s putting a new spin on it — we heard it today.
A very simple question, Mr. Speaker: will the Premier reconsider this decision in regard to Yukon College, or does he insist on sticking with his minister’s take-it-or-leave-it approach, because that’s what the people of Carmacks have been facing?
Speaker’s statement
Speaker: Before the hon. Premier answers the question, the Chair is uncomfortable with the nature of the innuendo on each side of the floor, and I would ask all members of the House to respect each other. Please carry on, the hon. Premier.
Hon. Mr. Fentie: My sincere apologies to the Member for Mayo-Tatchun.
Mr. Speaker, it was also evident in the meeting that there would be a need for a sizable investment in dealing with the existing College and its facilities, and that’s why the minister, after a long period of consultation with the community in dealing with the planning committee, was trying to make representation in this regard that we could make an investment here that could accomplish a number of things.
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By housing or combining a facility, a campus and a school together, the investment that we would have to incur to upgrade and improve the existing facility would also be important in this regard because we could divert that money into programming and equipment and tools in a learning institution. For example, we could complement what the minister is already doing in a $500,000 investment in curriculum change for First Nations by adding more areas of learning within this school to address the First Nation culture and needs and recognize within our school system that very point. And, Mr. Speaker, we as a government are looking at all the issues and all the concerns, and that is exactly why we had the meeting on Friday, and we still are going to relay to the community the positives of such a school.
Mr. Hardy: Well, Mr. Speaker, I guess people just have to accept the fact that the Premier knows best. People are allowed to be on committees as long as their conclusions are exactly what the Yukon Premier’s government wants, exactly what the Premier wants. It might not be so bad if the Yukon Party lived up to what they promised during election time two years ago, but we have witnessed promise after promise ignored, neglected, twisted, denied or shattered.
Now, let’s go back to something the Premier said after Friday’s meeting in Carmacks. The Premier hinted at a future investment in the First Nation administration building for the Yukon River management plan and the Ranger program. And it really does beg the question: when did the Premier think of this? Now, is the Premier suggesting he’ll open his chequebook for the First Nation if they go along with moving the College campus to the site of the new Tantalus School, or will that still stand if the College does not go there?
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Hon. Mr. Fentie: Let me address the beginnings of this question from the leader of the official opposition and his comments about “promises made, promises shattered”. That’s right up there with the official opposition’s view of the territory, that it is a place of madness and misery. The statistics certainly are contrary to that position.
This is not something that the government came forward with. This is a request from the First Nation that we are now addressing and looking into how we can best deliver it. It would create an investment in the Little Salmon-Carmacks First Nation’s administration building. It would create training for Little Salmon-Carmacks people. It would create jobs for Little Salmon-Carmacks people. It would create overall benefit for the Yukon River system within the Little Salmon-Carmacks traditional territory. It is a good thing.
So the government is doing more than simply building a school in a riding we don’t hold. We are trying to address demonstrated needs where they come forward — in this case Carmacks. This government is living up to its commitments to be fair to all Yukoners, unlike the official opposition.
Mr. Hardy: I have to remind the Premier opposite that the “madness and misery” caption came from all the notorious headlines that that government created last year. We certainly know the Premier’s chequebook is getting bigger and bigger. I hope he doesn’t think that will buy him goodwill in the next election after trampling on one community after another by deciding first and consulting later.
This morning the Grand Chief of the Council of Yukon First Nations made it clear that many other First Nations are watching the Carmacks situation closely. He suggested this could affect the Education Act review, which has been stalled for three years. He also suggested it could lead some First Nations to think about setting up their own schools. I hope the Premier is listening very closely and I hope the Premier hears.
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How does the Premier plan to reassure other communities that their advice won’t be ignored in the future the way so many people in Carmacks feel that they have been ignored to date?
Hon. Mr. Fentie: Mr. Speaker, the community of Carmacks and its citizens have hardly been ignored. This process has been ongoing for the better part of a year. Also, this government, recognizing how the former government completely misread the situation in our education system when it comes to First Nations, has offered something entirely different than an Education Act review. We have offered to reform our education system. That’s an important point.
Secondly, we are already making investments in language, curriculum change and other training initiatives that are specific to First Nations and their communities. Also, Mr. Speaker, the member should well know that when it comes to the final agreements, the treaties in this territory with self-governing First Nations, they have the authority to take down education. We all know that. However, when it comes to the merits of what the Minister of Education and his department are doing, it’s about a public education system providing enhanced and improved education services in the community of Carmacks for all its citizens, and it is out of the public purse. That is our obligation as a public government; we will carry out that obligation.
Question re: Tantalus School, Yukon College campus at
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, on Friday afternoon the Premier got an earful from the community of Carmacks about broken promises from this government. After campaigning on a slogan of “Together we will do better”, this government is now governing under the slogan, “If you don’t like it, do it yourself”. What a change in attitude. And the community is not happy.
The Premier said on Friday, “I’m going there to listen. That’s exactly what this government does.” He then said, “The government’s going to build a school with a college attached to it. The decision has been made.” Cosmetic consultation can’t cover the cracks in this government. Government has to listen to the public.
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My question is for the Minister of Education. Why is the government refusing to hear what the people of Carmacks have to say about their school — his responsibility?
Hon. Mr. Edzerza: I’d like to correct the record here from what the member opposite is suggesting. This government does listen. This whole process is about improving education and the education facility in Carmacks. I fail to see anything negative about that, Mr. Speaker. This government, along with the people of Carmacks, will some day all benefit from a very nice facility in Carmacks.
I think it’s important for this member to lay out on the floor what the roles of each government are. The First Nation government is there to serve their beneficiary members. The municipal government has the responsibility of providing all kinds of services to the community of Carmacks, such as recreation, sewage and water treatment and garbage pickup. Those are responsibilities of the municipal government.
Then it comes to YTG. We sort of have to fill in for all those. We do recognize that each government has its responsibilities, and this government is holding up its end of its responsibilities.
Ms. Duncan: This summer the Minister of Health and Social Services spoke at the CYFN General Assembly. He was heavily criticized by the First Nation leadership over this government’s refusal to listen. What was his response? “We will work harder.” No. “I hear you; we’ll try to change the way we do things.” No. His response was, “If you don’t like how we’re doing things, do it yourself; use your authority and take over the services.” So much for “Together we will do better”.
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His attitude was take it or leave it, and the mess in Carmacks is the result of the same attitude. The government won’t listen and the government won’t work with the community. Why is the minister trying to force on the community what the community doesn’t want? Why is the government refusing to hear what the people of Carmacks have to say? Why are they doing that?
Hon. Mr. Edzerza: I remind the member opposite that we do have a responsibility to listen to every citizen in Carmacks, and that’s exactly what we’re doing.
I will also remind the member opposite that in the previous sitting, the direction of the Liberal Party was that we do not move that school anywhere but where the present location is — the member even cited the costs of how much the NDP government paid to buy that land. Well, I thank that member. It was all accurate information and we were well aware of that.
Mr Speaker, I want to say again today that this whole issue is around building a new facility in Carmacks, one that will provide jobs, put a good boost to an economy where there is one basically non-existent, that is going to provide training for the citizens in Carmacks, for whom, I might add, this government has already arranged the pre-carpenter training course to get people ready for this project. Mr. Speaker, there is nothing but positives here and I certainly want to commend the Mayor and Council of Carmacks for addressing the issues of providing good services to the community.
Ms. Duncan: Mr. Speaker, once again the minister has failed to answer as to why the government is adopting this attitude of, “If you don’t like it, do it yourself” and why they’re not listening to the community. The mistakes the government is making in Carmacks are spilling over into other education issues. They’re threatening the Education Act as well.
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The Grand Chief noted today that many First Nations are not prepared to cooperate with the government on the Education Act review because of the dispute in Carmacks, because of the attitude from the members opposite. Will the minister listen to the community of Carmacks and get on with building a school so that we can move forward on a much-needed — and promised, committed to — review of the Education Act? Is the minister going to be part of the solution or is the minister going to continue to be part of the problems?
Hon. Mr. Edzerza: Let’s start by correcting the member opposite. It’s not an attitude; it’s a process that has been created to build a new school in Carmacks that this government has committed to, something that both opposition parties failed to deliver on in the past 12 years. This government will do it in one mandate. Yes, there are always differences of opinions between governments. It’s nothing new. It’s absolutely nothing new that governments will disagree with each other — so be it. At the end of the day, the fact remains that there has to be a replacement of the school in Carmacks, and this government, being the fiscal, responsible government it is, will look at doing that job within the budget.
I think it’s important to note here that this whole process was started by the NDP government and it was followed by the Liberals. They started this process of adding colleges to public schools. I must say that was the smartest thing they ever did, Mr. Speaker, because it is a fiscally responsible decision.
Question re: Ambulances
Mr. McRobb: My question is for the Minister of Health and Social Services. The minister purchased two box-type ambulances recently and he forced the personnel within emergency medical services to accept them. The minister says that the ambulances are state of the art; however, these behemoth box ambulances are too big, too clumsy and are injuring the attendants who use them. As a matter of fact, there have been two more injuries since last week’s question on this matter.
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Now we have learned the Province of British Columbia has dumped these types of ambulances. In fact, B.C. used to have 37 of them. Now it only has seven, and they are planning to reduce that number to five next year.
Will the minister tell this House what kind of market research was done on the purchase of these vehicles and which professionals he consulted before engaging in a sole-sourced solo soiree?
Hon. Mr. Jenkins: For the record, it was the department that purchased the ambulances. The minister facilitated it by ensuring that money was in the budget for the appropriation. Due process was adhered to and followed. The type I ambulance is a standard North American ambulance configuration; four-wheel drive type I is peculiar and it’s used in a lot of the remote areas of North America and to a great extent in British Columbia in the forestry industry, in the mining industry and a lot of other remote sectors.
In case the member has an opportunity to travel outside of Whitehorse, let the record reflect that a four-wheel drive vehicle is very much a necessity in many, many areas of the Yukon.
Mr. McRobb: That doesn’t explain why the province to our south is unloading these very same types of ambulances.
Last week the Yukon Employees Union passed a resolution asking for an inquiry by the Auditor General into this minister’s abuse of contract regulations for purchasing these very ambulances. Ministers are expected to uphold the regulations and to conduct public business with honour. The minister’s actions have created confusion and hardship for the employees. He has put his public servants in a very awkward position. Will he now clarify his actions with respect to the purchase of these ambulances so the people of the Yukon can judge whether he has acted in their best interest?
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Hon. Mr. Jenkins: The question should have been: what did our government do for emergency medical services here in the Yukon compared to what the previous administrations have done?
We put a quarter of a million dollars into the acquisition of new equipment. Further to that, we put another $200,000 into clothing; further to that, we put a whole series of dollars into training as well as to increasing honorariums for volunteers. That’s what our government has done. We have done our utmost to enhance and improve the exercises for emergency medical services to provide the highest consistent level of service possible to Yukoners, and we are doing our utmost to ensure they have the tools at their disposal to accomplish that end.
Question re: Dawson City interim chief administrative officer
Mr. Cardiff: My question is for the Minister of Community Services. Last April, the trustee in Dawson hired a chief administrative officer at $600 a day, four days a week for 50 weeks, plus expenses. That money is paid out of the City of Dawson’s coffers.
The other day in the Legislature, the minister stated that Dawson’s finances are dire and require intervention. The trustee recently declared that when a new mayor and council are elected, the salaries are going to be drastically reduced.
In light of this, does the minister feel that it’s necessary for the city to pay well over $120,000 a year for a chief administrative officer?
Hon. Mr. Hart: As I mentioned, the finances of Dawson City are in dire straits. And do I think it’s worthwhile? I think it’s imperative they get appropriate financial assistance, both from the CAO and the trustee, to get their finances in order.
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Mr. Cardiff: For $120,000 a year, $600 a day, four days a week, 50 weeks of long weekends — it has been six months since the hiring of the CAO, and there still isn’t a formal job description. The petition that I tabled on May 18 on behalf of the residents of Dawson asked the minister to allow for “a full and unbiased disclosure of all the events and circumstances that led up to the city’s current financial situation and the removal of the mayor and council.”
The minister responded to that petition last Wednesday, but he didn’t address this request in his reply to the petition. Could the minister please respond to that request now?
Hon. Mr. Hart: For the member opposite, we, the trustee, is responsible for running the current affairs of the City of Dawson, and he is utilizing the services of a qualified CAO to assist him in that manner. They are currently going through their financial books along with the forensic auditor, who is currently still in Dawson going through the records, and we intend to follow through with that process. We think it’s very important that all our financial stuff gets looked at and reviewed to ensure that we know exactly where Dawson City stands financially.
Mr. Cardiff: Let the record show that the minister didn’t answer the question. I was talking about an independent inquiry. We were looking for a full disclosure — an unbiased disclosure — of the events and the circumstances. Unfortunately, a forensic audit is only going to deal with the money trail. It’s not going to deal with the circumstances that led up to this action.
This seems to be another prime example of “the Yukon Party knows best”, Mr. Speaker, and it comes along with the usual lack of real public consultation and involvement in this process.
The petition asked him for an independent commission of inquiry to investigate the situation in Dawson, to investigate the events and the circumstances that led to this situation.
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So, will the minister now commit to establishing an independent commission of inquiry so that the citizens of Dawson can find out exactly what led up to the decision to remove the previous mayor and council?
Hon. Mr. Hart: To answer the member opposite’s own question, that is exactly what we are doing. The member opposite asked. We are digging into the financial situation aspect, dealing with why the City of Dawson got in the predicament they’re in. We need to have a forensic audit to determine where they stand financially. That’s the first step to identify what’s happening, where it came from, where the financial aspects came from, why the result is the place we find ourselves in with the City of Dawson with regard to the financial statement. Let’s not forget the fact that the City of Dawson took time to get into the position that they’re in. This didn’t happen overnight, didn’t happen while this government was in place. This all took place prior to us taking over in the government.
Dawson City’s situation is there, and I’m not going to try to hide behind anything in this process. We are doing what we think is necessary. We have hired a forensic auditor, and we are going to get in there and we’re going to get to the bottom of this situation once and for all.
Speaker: Time for Question Period has now elapsed. We will proceed to Orders of the Day.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BILLS
Bill No. 12: Second Reading
Clerk: Second reading, Bill No. 12, standing in the name of the Hon. Mr. Fentie.
Hon. Mr. Fentie: Mr. Speaker, I move that Bill No. 12, entitled Second Appropriation Act, 2004-05, be now read a second time.
Speaker: It has been moved by the hon. Premier that Bill No. 12, entitled Second Appropriation Act, 2004-05, be now read a second time.
Hon. Mr. Fentie: Mr. Speaker, in the fiscal year of the largest budget in the history of the Yukon, the Supplementary Estimates No. 1 for 2004-05 requests a gross budgetary expenditure of $34,311,000. Of this total, $30,037,000 is for operation and maintenance and $4,274,000 is for capital.
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The most significant increase, totalling almost $10.5 million, is required to fund fire suppression costs, which were approved earlier this year by special warrant, plus an additional $4 million for fire suppression, which is a revote carried forward from last year. This $10.5 million points out a serious deficiency in the devolution transfer agreement that I raised with the new Minister of DIAND, the Hon. Andy Scott, on his recent visit to Whitehorse. We indicated to the minister that it is our intention to invoke the five-year review of fire suppression costs pursuant to section 5.5 of the devolution transfer agreement, in order to address the inadequacies of the current formula. $19 million of the $34.3 million are revote items. $5.6 million are O&M and $13.4 million are capital.
The new expenditures outlined in this supplementary further advance our economic, health and social agendas outlined in our 2002 election platform. I would like to highlight some of these expenditures for the edification of the House. We are investing $1.85 million in capital pre-planning initiatives in Highways and Public Works, to include $100,000 on engineering work on 15 kilometres of the Campbell Highway; $50,000 on planning granular surface improvements for the Dempster Highway; $150,000 for 40 kilometres of design work on the Atlin Road to update the design plan from the Tagish Road intersection to the B.C.-Yukon border. Again, this is an example of our commitment to Yukoners to increase our investment in infrastructure, specifically our highways. After consultations with the Kwanlin Dun First Nation and the City of Whitehorse, Community Services is pleased to announce $150,000 for the extension of Hamilton Boulevard to provide a secondary access route, both for public safety reasons and to promote the development of this important area for the City of Whitehorse.
Our government is also contributing $440,000 to White Pass & Yukon Route to upgrade its rail line into Carcross in exchange for acquiring the ownership of the Red Line passenger train — in short, advancing and enhancing our tourism industry by bringing a significant amount of traffic from Skagway, Alaska as far as the community of Carcross.
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There are other highlights, and they include: $150,000 in new funding for violence against women added to the previously designated aboriginal women’s violence prevention initiatives, an area that this government took the lead on in listening to aboriginal women of this territory; $300,000 additional funding for home care services and initiatives to meet increased demand for these services and program enhancement in areas such as palliative care services, training for community home support workers and in matching clients’ needs to services — another example of the government and the minister responsible listening to Yukoners and providing investment in areas of demonstrated need.
$350,000 is being invested in a scenic drives initiative marketing campaign to highlight the Alaska Highway, the scenic drive, in order to attract additional highway travellers and to increase their length of stay. We have a bright light and the strategic industry in this territory, and that is tourism. The minister responsible for the Department of Tourism and Culture has significantly promoted this initiative to enhance our ability to attract travellers to the Yukon. This investment is all about listening to the tourism industry and delivering.
There will be a $500,000 increase and a $44,000 revote in community training funds to bring the total to $2 million, with $1.5 million already spent. $500,000 of that investment is to trades and technology, an area of focus for this government because we listen to Yukoners; $300,000 is to literacy and basic employment skills development, again an investment that has spawned from listening to Yukoners, and this government is delivering; $200,000 is to heritage and cultural development. Our government is also providing $600,000 in an extraordinary grant to Dawson City in order to make provision for cash flow relief for the town in order to address current and short-term liabilities, such as the interim repair of the recreational centre’s roof so it can be used this winter. That’s an example of listening to the residents of Dawson so they have a usable facility this winter. This supplementary budget has that investment in it.
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Our government, together with First Nation governments and the Council of Yukon First Nations are engaged in some major consultation initiatives dealing with the Children’s Act review, educational reform and correctional reform. That is all about our commitment to formalizing our relationship with First Nations, and these major initiatives are clear examples, clear testimony to listening to First Nations and delivering on what we heard. $460,000 is being provided in this supplementary to initiate the education reform process; a major undertaking. Unlike past governments who tried a limited successful approach to amending the Education Act, we are looking at reforming the education system itself to better reflect the culture and needs of First Nation people.
In keeping with our 2002 election commitment, $200,000 in additional funds is being made available for the Yukon grant due to increased enrolment and indexing. Unlike what the member opposite keeps saying to the Yukon public, this is, again, another example of a commitment made and a commitment delivered upon. It’s in this supplementary budget.
The Department of Energy, Mines and Resources will be receiving a $1.288-million increase in the agreement with Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development for the care and maintenance and closure planning of abandoned mines.
The development of a new Yukon placer authorization regime remains a top priority and $100,000 is being provided in this supplementary to carry on this important work. A further $350,000 is being provided for the management and project permitting of major potential mining developments such as Carmacks, Copper and the Wolverine properties. These are two examples of how we have listened to industry — a strategic industry in this case, the mining industry — and we have delivered again. Once again we have delivered on their request. That is listening.
This appropriation also provides Energy, Mines and Resources with $298,000 for forestry, $168,000 for inventory and $130,000 for forestry renewal. These were revotes from 2003-04.
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The Department of Environment is about to begin a major environmental initiative to clean up the Marwell tar pits. Now, Mr. Speaker, how long have the citizens of Whitehorse, and indeed Yukoners, been putting forward this very request when it comes to the Marwell tar pits? This government listened. This government is acting.
It is also planning to spend $45,000 on the very successful Chisana caribou herd recovery project, another wise investment on behalf of this territory’s future.
The Department of Health and Social Services is requesting $996,000 in funding for an increase in the number of children in care as well as increases in rates resulting from special needs. Mr. Speaker, this government listened to those in need. This government is investing where we can to assist those in need.
There has been a seven-percent increase in social assistance, a four-percent increase in the number of cases and a three-percent average increase in the cost per case over the same period last year, totalling $1.2 million in additional costs.
Mr. Speaker, we have heard the members opposite berate the Minister of Health and Social Services on his commitment to those who require the social safety net. Well, here’s the evidence of what that minister’s commitment is all about — a $1.2 million increased investment to again ensure that our social safety net is sufficient.
The start-up costs for seven new beds in Macaulay Lodge and 12 new beds at Copper Ridge total another $340,000-increase investment.
The cost of providing proper health care in Yukon continues to rise, and $1.526 million is being requested for insured services and a further $1.65 million for hospital claims. We are, as a government, listening to our health care system and those in it, and we are increasing our investment there.
$100,000 is being provided to cover the operating costs of the tele-health program that is no longer funded by the Canada health infrastructure partnerships program. Here’s an area of reform in our health care system. This government listened. This government invested.
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Ambulance services will be receiving $195,000 to cover overtime and auxiliary personnel required to meet increased demand and costs of backfill for staff on extended leave, as well as a further $82,000 for honorariums, clothing, repairs to vehicles and insurance, et cetera — another example of listening, another example of delivery.
Our government’s collaborative approach with Yukon First Nation governments and correctional reform will ultimately determine what facility or facilities will replace the Whitehorse Correctional Centre. Our government is not neglecting its obligations to inmates and staff.
In this regard, Mr. Speaker, $83,000 is being requested in this supplementary to start a three-year training plan to ensure the basic safety and security for staff as well as for inmate services. $520,000 is required to address the safety issues at the Whitehorse Correctional Centre identified in the fire marshal’s report.
The Yukon Housing Corporation has reached an agreement with the White River First Nation to provide project management and services for the building of four housing units in Beaver Creek. We have listened, and in this case there is a need for housing in outlying communities, especially, and we have acted in that regard. Yukon Housing Corporation will expend a total of $155,000, of which $57,000 will be covered under the existing home repair program to implement its affordable housing program.
Our government has also announced its intention to help seniors offset increasing fuel costs by adding $75,000 to the base grant of $750,000 already in place for the pioneer utility grant, bringing it to a total of $825,000. The grant was increased last year by 25 percent and indexed against inflation. This latest $75,000 increase will come into effect in the new 2005-06 budget cycle. Mr. Speaker, here’s an example of us listening to the opposition — a government that listens, a government that acts upon what we have heard.
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These increased expenditures and revotes will increase this government’s total expenditures for 2004-05, this $740.4 million. All these expenditures — the total amount — is an investment in Yukon today and in Yukon’s future. I think the statistics bear out that our investments are going in the right direction.
Our net financial resources at year-end, even with this sizable investment for 2004-05, will total $34 million, which is double the projected net financial resources contained in the main estimates. Again, an example of our financial administration in strengthening the fiscal situation this territory experienced in the last two years, as left by the former Liberal government. That strengthening of our fiscal position has allowed us to do many more things in terms of delivering what we committed to.
Our first task upon coming into government in November was to put that very fiscal house in order, and we have done that to date. The 2003-04 main estimates laid the foundation for the financial future of the territory, and now our 2004-05 budget has built upon that foundation and is helping to determine the future economic course of the territory for the duration of our current mandate. I indicated last March that the 2004-05 budget would be the most important of the four budgets our government will develop during our current mandate. It was designed to be our financial flagship that, together with our economic strategy, is helping to build a sustainable and competitive Yukon. That budget and that strategy are working.
In August, we achieved an unemployment rate of 5.9 percent, the lowest recorded unemployment rate since the statistics have been collected in 1992.
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This historic low unemployment rate was achieved while the Yukon’s population was increasing. As of June, 493 more people are calling Yukon their home. Our employment numbers for this September compared to last September are very good news indeed. The labour force increased by 500, or 3.4 percent. The number of employed Yukoners increased by 1,100, or 8.5 percent. The number of unemployed Yukoners decreased by 600, or 40 percent. The unemployment rate decreased by 4.3 percentage points to a mere six percent, one of the lowest in the country.
In the month of September 2004, the Yukon rate of unemployment of six percent was 1.1 percentage points lower than the rate for Canada nationally, at 7.1 percent. In September 2003, Yukon’s unemployment rate was 3.1 percentage points higher than the rate of Canada. That’s the type of turnaround we’re experiencing through the investments of this Yukon Party government.
Mining exploration has more than tripled since our government took office, rising from $6.9 million in 2002 to an estimated $25 million this year. Despite our record forest fire season, tourism visitor numbers increased by 3.6 percent over last year. We are drilling in the southeast Yukon for the first time in almost three decades. Devon of Canada is spending $20 million on drilling on its existing leases in the Kotaneelee.
Under the leadership of the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources, timber permits have been issued in the southeast Yukon for the first time in three years.
Mr. Speaker, in our 2002 election platform we promised to put the Yukon economy back on track. The statistics I have just quoted clearly show we have kept that promise. Unlike the members who continually point out, in a very incorrect manner, that this government has not lived up to its commitments, in the face of all the evidence I would say to you, Mr. Speaker, that the members opposite should get on board and start working with us to build a better and brighter future instead of trying to dismantle the past.
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The Yukon economy is on a roll. Our policies, actions and budgets — particularly the 2004-05 main estimates — have helped kick-start the Yukon economy.
Our decision to halt the Yukon protected areas strategy helped restore investor confidence in the territory, in our critically important natural resource sector. Our efforts to support the placer mining sector develop a new Yukon placer authorization have helped save this historic economic mainstay. The Department Energy, Mines and Resources and the Department of Environment have adopted a collaborative and integrated approach to resource development and environmental protection. That’s all part of the commitment we made to the Yukon public, and we are delivering, Mr. Speaker.
The re-establishment of the Department of Economic Development and a stand-alone Department of Tourism and Culture have helped turn this economy around. Unlike the previous Liberal government, we are not dismantling the machinery of government; we are creating the machinery of government in a way we can build a brighter future for this territory. The statistics point that out.
The Kaska bilateral agreement has opened up natural resource development in southeast Yukon for the benefit of all Yukoners. Our building of relationships with First Nation governments, with our two sister territories, with Alaska, Alberta and British Columbia have helped to rebuild the Yukon economy and put the Yukon firmly on the national stage.
A fundamental commitment we made in the election of 2002 was to formalize our relationship with the Yukon First Nations and to make them full partners in the economic development of the territory. In that regard, I would like to explain to this House why this commitment is so important. The settlement of land claims has forever changed the jurisdictional map of the Yukon. Once all 14 Yukon First Nations have achieved a settlement of their land claims, there will be 15 provincial type governments in the territory — namely, the Government of Yukon and 14 self-governing First Nation governments. It is critically important for the Yukon government and all Yukon First Nation governments to work in collaboration. This is why our government has signed a memorandum of understanding with self-governing First Nations to create a Yukon forum where issues of mutual interests, and/or concern can be dealt with in a formalized way as governments.
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It is our intention to ultimately establish the Yukon forum in legislation. In addition, to the memorandum of understanding on the Yukon forum, our government has a growing list of agreements, protocols, accords and initiatives between the Government of Yukon and First Nation governments: an intergovernmental relations accord with the Vuntut Gwitchin government; a memorandum of understanding with the Kwanlin Dun First Nation; the Kaska bilateral agreement mentioned earlier; a protocol on consultation with self-governing First Nations — one of the reasons we took a year in discussing and consulting in the community of Carmacks around building a learning institution for that community; the Kaska Nation and Yukon forestry agreement in principle; an agreement with Champagne and Aishihik First Nations on the Alsek strategy forestry management plan emphasizing economic opportunities, forest health and forest renewal, including beetle-kill areas; and the northern Yukon economic partnership agreement with the Vuntut Gwitchin, Tr’ondëk Hwëch’in and the Na Cho Nyäk Dun.
Our government has also helped foster First Nation participation in economic development in the territory. We helped facilitate the partnership between Kaska mineral resources and Teck Cominco over R15 in the southeast Yukon that could lead to the development of a major mine. We have also helped facilitate the creation of the Alaska Highway Aboriginal Pipeline Coalition, comprised of seven First Nations from Yukon and B.C. along the route, with the three remaining First Nations having observer status.
Our collaboration with First Nations has played a major role in rejuvenating the Yukon economy and improving our relationship with First Nations in the Yukon. First Nations currently contribute millions of dollars to the Yukon economy. Yukon is their home and Yukon First Nations spend their money here, thus reducing leakage to the Outside.
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Mr. Speaker, this supplementary budget will help continue the considerable progress our government has achieved in meeting its commitments to Yukoners as we reach the mid-point in our mandate. I commend this supplementary to all members of the House. It is investing in today’s Yukon to build Yukon’s future.
Thank you.
Mr. Hardy: Mr. Speaker, that was once again another lecture on how great the Yukon’s doing under the Yukon Party government in the eyes of the Yukon Party Premier. However, that’s not exactly the view that many, many Yukoners have of what’s happening. I’ll go over some of those, but it was quite interesting to listen to the Premier. It sounded like the same speech he gave, except a little shorter, in the springtime. So obviously not much has really happened.
Now, we do know that this is primarily supposed to be a legislative sitting, and the government wasn’t capable of delivering any legislation of any significance to date, so obviously they’re trying to spin once again the best picture possible. What it really does is raise a question of what the government did all summer, and I’m not quite sure, frankly. I do know what some of them did, and that’s fine, but it sure the heck wasn’t necessarily the work that is expected of them when they are in government.
Now, what is one of the issues that we often hear out in public that is often not reflected by the Yukon Party government in here? A lot of it comes right down to — it’s not the fact that there’s another government in place. There have been NDP governments in the Yukon for 16 or 17 years, I believe, somewhere around there. There have been a few Yukon Party governments, and people do remember them. Of course, there has been one short period when there was a Liberal government in. And each of them brings forward budgets, and each of them tells how great the Yukon is doing and how much the work that they’re doing is having a great impact upon the improvement of quality of life and the future for the Yukon.
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It’s interesting that you could probably take a lot of these speeches that are given and they’re pretty consistent with those of other governments and other premiers, because, of course, there’s no way in the world the Premier is going to get up and say, “You know, we have some serious problems here. We’re struggling to address them.” No, they’re going to put on the bright light, the bright spin. We’ll get into the statistical analysis in a bit, but one thing people of the Yukon do look for, Mr. Speaker, of course, is a government they can trust. It’s not just where you’re spending your money, but it’s how you spend the money. It’s what you do in government. It’s how you conduct yourself in the kinds of relationships you have with other levels of government, be it First Nations, municipal, federal government, but also the people.
Unfortunately this is a government that has lost the trust of the Yukon people. They have not lost the trust on spending, because as we’re told on a continuous basis, this is a government that spends more than any other government in history. This is a conservative government that spends absolutely to the max everywhere they can, often actually to some very interesting areas such as the consultants they hire, and they have hired, which add up to quite a substantial amount which we will one day bring forward. We often find that the consultants have a long history with their party. Is that a good usage of money? Well, that’s another thing that we will debate, I’m sure, over the next year or so that they have left in government. The people of this territory are not comfortable with the conduct of this government.
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Of course it is reflected by the budgets that are brought forward and the supplementary budget we’re talking about today. It also reflects how that’s arrived at and how people are treated. In the public today, there is definitely a feeling that this government does not respect or listen to the communities, NGOs, organizations or individuals. I get that message delivered to me daily, and I don’t say that lightly, because it is daily, whether I’m at home — in the evening I get phone calls from around the Yukon — whether it’s out shopping, at activities. This is what people talk about. They don’t talk about how great the economy is and how great everything is. They talk about the fact that they cannot trust these people on the other side. That’s a serious allegation the people of the territory make, but you have to listen to it.
As a matter of fact, I would recommend that this government listen to this as well — listen to what I say here. I’m not making it up, and I’m not saying it to try to injure or hurt anybody. I am just reflecting what I hear. It’s a common theme that we have.
Frankly, I’ve seen a lot of governments in the territory. We have a tendency in the Yukon to try one; three and a half years later, four years later or two and a half years later, they’re gone. People in this territory do not tolerate incompetence; they do not tolerate arrogance; they do not tolerate behaviour that they feel is untrustworthy, all those things — whichever government it is. That’s what they hang their hat on. It’s not the government that brings in or spends the most money — which this government seems to like to talk about. I get concerned when it’s a race to spend a billion dollars over there, it seems like.
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They keep cranking it up and cranking it up and bragging about it and cranking it up. You have to really wonder — what is that to brag about? But the people out there understand that. They don’t think this is overly impressive, that they spent a record amount of money. What people talk about in public is: is this a government that listens, is this a government that consults, are these elected members whom they can trust, and will they reflect the values and will of the people of the territory? What is coming back after two years is, no, they do not believe, they do not trust and they do not think that this government is going in a direction that is reflective of the wishes of the people of the territory. And, of course, you know what the outcome of that will be? Because we have it all the time — we’ve seen it time and time again: the government goes and a new government comes in and inherits some good programs and also some major problems. That’s a given almost with any government because, of course, there are always some very good things done but there are also some that are questionable. That could be lack of experience or be pure stubbornness that you think you should have something like that in place and it doesn’t necessarily work out within the context of serving the people.
There is a lot of information out about good government. There are a lot of books written about how you should conduct yourself, but frankly, from what I can see, there are a couple of elements that are repeated over and over. Of course one is common sense on how you conduct yourself and treat people, and sincere consultation — allowing people to have a voice — is very important. Try in your conduct and in your policies to reflect that. If it does gibe with your party mantra or party vision, then you have to be able to explain that. You have to be able to argue that position clearly so that the people understand where you’re coming from. That, I feel, has not happened yet. We still feel that there is no vision coming forward from this government after two years. We hear the same lines in every session that opens. I can take those lines and go back to 1992, to 1996, and they will be the exact same lines as we heard then. It’s the same writer who writes them. He has carried forward the same concepts and they’re just transferred to a new group of people.
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But they didn’t work then and they’re not going to work now, because behind the words there has to be something of substance. The Premier has listed off a fair number of some of the areas within the supplementary line item expending, and some of them are very good. I think some of where they’re spending money is very good, of course. The $150,000 for violence against women who are First Nation — absolutely. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I mean, I think everybody in here feels, if anything, that’s not enough. But at least it’s a good step, and I applaud the minister and I applaud the Premier for doing that. The $350,000 for home care — well, that’s so short of what is needed, but still it is recognition that that is an area — and there are other areas. I am not going to respond to every single item that the Premier listed, but I did want to definitely mention those two, as well as the community training funds — an NDP initiative years ago. Obviously it has continued — obviously the Yukon Party sees some value in that and has committed some more money toward that, and I applaud them. Those are excellent.
When you are going to spend $750 million — four years ago I think it was $600 million, and now we’re up to $745 million. That’s a $145-million jump. I hope that there are some new initiatives from when the NDP was in last time because there is a substantial increase in funding that is available to spend. But what concerns me is that a lot of the spending is not very wise, and hiring people for a substantial amount of money without really good checks and balances does concern me. And there is a very big list of people who have been hired on contracts.
Today we had in Question Period the question about a person who was sent up — I believe he’s called a trustee. I’m not sure if that is his exact title.
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Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible)
Mr. Hardy: CAO? The CAO of Dawson was put in place to help with their financial issues. We find out his contract is $600 a day for 50 some weeks, basically a year, four days a week. That works out to, roughly, $120,000. I think that the whole council and mayor didn’t even come to that amount — not even near it. But that is just one person who was sent up there, and he’s still up there. My understanding is that he doesn’t even have a job description. Generally you have a job description before you hire somebody. You kind of know what you’re hiring them for and there are some parameters setting out what they are going to go. If I hire a journeyman carpenter, I expect a certain degree of knowledge coming, and I expect the performance and the work to reflect the knowledge that they should have that I am paying for. If I hire a first-year apprentice, I don’t expect the same as a journeyman and that person I would pay accordingly, and I would make sure they are assigned work that they can do as well as learn from.
As well, there was another contract, of course. There is the other person up there. I think his contract is for $800 a day. So now we’ve got $1,400 a day for two people. His contract is supposedly shorter. One of the questions we’ll have to ask, of course — and my colleague from Mount Lorne who has been inquiring about Dawson City affairs will be pursuing this. But you’re looking at $1,400 a day right now, and definitely one of them is coming out of the coffers of Dawson City, so it is increasing its debt. But before that, there was also the hiring of another consultant, and I’m not sure what his amount was, but I would suspect it was anywhere from $600 to $800 a day as well.
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There are a lot of high-priced consultants being hired, and I talked last week about the hiring of an old party member and former MLA to take a look at the electoral process being done, in British Columbia predominantly, for a very substantial contract. You really wonder what the motivation was behind that and why this amount and if it was just to delay an election promise, because this is not what was promised two years ago, Mr. Speaker. It’s very clear. Two years ago, around the electoral process, immediately upon forming government, and these are the Premier’s words — I could be corrected, I’m quite happy to be corrected if I’m a little bit off. But immediately upon forming government, the Yukon Party, the new government, was going to strike a committee to look at electoral reform. Guess what? Two years later we don’t have that. Instead they hire a friend to go and watch proceedings in another province.
I was quite curious about this. I went on the Internet and looked at what he was watching and found out that not only his interim report — 90 percent of the stuff — came off the Internet within 40 seconds but I could actually go to their Web site, and then — by the way, Mr. Speaker, it’s actually an amazing Web site. They’ve put a ton of work into it to make it available and accessible for all people anywhere in the world, and I applaud the Citizens’ Assembly and the government down there for making it this open. But I can go on there and hit a point on it where I get the whole video feed as well. So I could feel like I’m sitting in the room listening, watching the man or woman speak, and the proceedings happening, and I don’t have to leave my room. I don’t have to fly to Vancouver. I don’t have to stay in a nice hotel. I don’t have to run up another expensive bill for the territorial people to do that. I can do it in front of a computer and get all the information that we got in the interim report.
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Granted, the person hired has to give a final report, and I look forward to it. I have talked to him about it since. He assured me I will be pleased with it, and I hope that happens; I really do, because I would hope, if it’s a very good report, we can very quickly move forward on it.
Of course we brought forward changes. We brought forward a democratic reform bill, and part of that is electoral reform and striking a committee. I believe that can happen now. That committee can be struck. The consultant can be a reference in this and can finish his report, and we would move forward a lot faster. I’m hoping; I’m looking forward to having that debate in here, because I think people of this territory want to see that kind of debate, and they don’t understand why there’s a delay. Frankly, the delay we’re witnessing is not uncommon for this government when it doesn’t want to address one of their promises or a difficult issue.
There are so many other issues facing the territory today. The Premier has touched on some of them, but that doesn’t mean they’re necessarily getting resolved. We have issues around special warrants, for instance, and a big part of this is special warrants.
So we have the Premier on record, formerly on this side in opposition, criticizing the previous government for special warrants and being very vocal about it, feeling that the way they’re used is very inappropriate. Since the Premier was elected, his use of special warrants has exceeded every other government to date.
You wonder why. Is it bad timing? Is it not being able to do your finances right, to get your books balanced? Is it not understanding spending habits? If there’s an emergency — absolutely; that’s what special warrants are for.
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That’s what they’re called: special warrants for special circumstances when you need to spend money. But we have seen special warrants used by this government to date in a manner that is not in an emergency, but it’s more expedient for them to use a special warrant.
Now, is that to say that all special warrants are wrong? No. The fire issue, the fire suppression, amounts — I think the Premier mentioned $10.5 million, I think it was, of special warrant in that regard — that probably applies and is probably legitimate. That was a special circumstance, but not the other special warrants that we have witnessed in this House by this Premier, especially considering his very vehement and strong arguments against it.
So, of course, that questions the credibility of the government. When you’re not in government you make a statement, a very strong statement, about something: it’s wrong for the government to do this, blah, blah, blah. As soon as you’re in government, you do it. Now that’s two things. One is you’re on this side saying these things just to discredit the government on that side, but you have no intention of following through, and it’s intentional that you don’t. Or else you really don’t understand the situation and you get over there and realize that, well, I have to do it. Of course, then you’re looking back again. I haven’t seen anybody admit to this yet. Maybe that’s one of the problems within our system here: we just don’t allow much room for anybody to say, “You know, I was wrong or I made a mistake.” It just seems like everything is at times always on this balance of scoring points or getting your sound bite out or discrediting somebody. You know, it’s difficult to do that all the time, on either side, and I would hope that the bill we brought forward — the democratic reform bill or act — will be seriously debated and we can move with that into trying to create a different environment where we can work together more. Not always together: we always have to have debate. We have to have constructive, challenging, exciting debate — or argument, or whatever people want to call it.
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But we also have to recognize that ultimately we’re all elected to represent the people of the territory, we have a responsibility there. But we will have to wait and see. We the NDP have brought this bill forward to help create good government. It’s not just the regular, as-it-goes government that people seem to get so frustrated with. And there have been a lot of complaints. All we have to do is look at the last elections. The NDP was in in 1992, and then it was Yukon Party. Following the Yukon Party, in the next election, it was the NDP again. After the NDP, right away into the next one, it was the Liberals. Now the Liberals are gone and we’re back to the Yukon Party. Everybody says the next one has to be the NDP again, in that cycle. Well, I don’t mind that argument. However, I think governments last longer when people vote for a person or a government instead of voting against. Right now I think we’re in the voting-against stage and may be in it for a long time to come. But why do people vote against? Because they get frustrated with the government that’s in. The changes that they want to see or expect to see, the positions the government takes during an election, the promises that are made often do not materialize in that period and they get very frustrated. But one of the biggest problems, without a doubt, of course, is listening and consultation — and I mean serious, meaningful consultation and not just going through the motions and, of course, knowing full well that you’ll consult with somebody but you’ve already made up your mind, really, about what is going to happen. And I think what has happened in Carmacks is exactly that. That is why there is so much anger being exhibited up in that area.
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If you don’t come to the table, with whatever group or other level of government, with the idea that you have an open mind, that you’re going to sit down with them and you’re going to come up with a solution to the problem, whether it’s building a new school, building a bridge, coming up with money to do some health services in a community or work with NGOs. There are many, many areas, many, many reasons. Even when you think you already know what is needed, if you don’t come to the table with that open mind and that willingness to hear very clearly what people are saying and be willing to be influenced by their opinions and their arguments — as long as they are justified on solid grounds — you are always going to have this problem.
What’s happening in Carmacks? From what I can see, there was an advisory committee, and the advisory committee was quite clear. They didn’t want the College attached to the school, for whatever reasons. The First Nation that makes up the predominant people there did not want the College attached to the school, for whatever reasons. The Premier earlier said it was financial. I wouldn’t go so far. I think they have some very legitimate arguments. Of course one of them is that they already have a college there. It is running well. It’s already in a building, and it is functioning. Everybody seems to be quite content. I haven’t heard a single complaint about the location or the running of the College out there. That in itself is an argument for keeping it exactly the way it is. It’s not always you have good programs happening in a location that people are quite content with.
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Why change it if it’s not broken? Why fix it?
The minister went up there and changed the rules. He basically said, “A year’s consultation, the year’s work, what you have identified you want and need is not going to happen; I’ve decided this is going to happen.” That right there is going to cause serious problems. It questions the year’s work. It questions the sincerity of the government to allow people to volunteer time out of their life to try to come up with what they feel the community needs. It doesn’t place value on the work they’ve already done.
Why did they even have to go through this whole year-long process if the government had already decided what it wanted? Why couldn’t the government just come right out, right up front, and say that this is the school, this is where it’s going to go, this is the College attached to it, and now we can have our debate? Why allow these people and the First Nation of Carmacks to go through that whole process, and then just say, “No, we don’t like what you people have come up with and we’re going to change it”?
That’s what happened, and of course it makes people angry. They’re not being listened to. That’s the first thing. Why did you do this to us? Why did you put us through this? Of course they’re fighting back, and they have a right to do that. They have a right to have a voice and they have a right to express their absolute frustration about that.
But what has happened from that? It has now spilled over. It has gone broader. It’s not so much just about the school now; it’s about the government and the way they consult, as they put it — “consult”. I’d argue that they don’t know how to consult and this is one indication of that, but it has gone broader. People are questioning whether they should sit down and negotiate any deal.
The Premier mentioned MOUs, the ones that are being signed with the First Nations across the territory. My understanding is that not all First Nations have signed them; however, a lot of them have been signed. I have already heard that they’re looking at those MOUs and they are wondering if the words written on that paper are worth anything if this is what can happen.
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The Education Act review. We heard this morning that that is part of this whole argument now. Carmacks school. The Education Act review. Do we trust this government to sit down and go through a review process to spend a lot of our time and resources to try to do our work and review the Education Act when we don’t feel that they’re going to listen to us in the end? Look what they did up in Carmacks. Why should we do this? Why should we trust the minister? Why should we trust the Premier, or any of the people in government? So the Carmacks school problem, yes — but now the problem has gotten this big. What is the problem? Lack of consultation, lack of respect for people’s opinions and views and what they have come up with if you empower them to do it, and trust.
The Fish and Wildlife Management Board — changes to that. Why did the government make changes? There was a recommendation regarding somebody who was on that board. There was tremendous respect for that person. They had done a lot of work, obviously contributed a lot, and that person was up to speed on the issues. There were many recommendations for that person to stay on that. He was removed by the Yukon Party government. Two people were put on who have openly said that they’re Yukon Party members. That created distrust within that board. It created distrust toward the government. Why did they do that? Why can’t a person just be judged — put aside the party stuff — on the work they’ve done. Why can’t the knowledge they have and what they can contribute to the territory be considered? It didn’t happen.
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Lots of hirings — questionable, whether they’re contracts or not. We have problems, Mr. Speaker, over in — well, what I consider a problem — the Yukon Development Corporation where there was a contract given out to a person. That contract became a job: full time, deputy minister level. Not only that, there are people who no longer work there. Whether they’re away on a year’s leave for stress or whatever, I would like to know what happened there. Not only that, this person is now wearing a multitude of hats that should probably not be happening because it puts that person in a difficult position — personally, from my viewpoint — but it also puts the government in a difficult position for the criticism that they’ll face for the minister allowing this to happen. And it puts the board that has allowed it to happen in a difficult situation.
We try to avoid one person wearing a lot of hats who is in control of, say, a department or an entity — in this case, we call them an entity — because of the conflict and the difficulty that that person could end up in. And decisions made that may be not good decisions — there’s another problem there.
We have hirings in the past — a $200,000 contract for our First Nation liaison person, I believe, to help with the Kaska — my understanding was from mostly in southeast Yukon. That person has moved on. I believe he’s not even working in the territory any more. But truthfully, what’s the product? What was done, what was the job description? $200,000 is a lot of money, Mr. Speaker.
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And we still really don’t know what kind of value for dollar there was in that and why it happened. It was never really explained that well. There were a lot of other examples, and we have, of course, the failure of the Standing Committee on Rules, Elections and Privileges. I could be wrong, but I don’t think SCREP has met more than once in two years.
Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible)
Mr. Hardy: The member opposite says I walked away from it. The Member for Lake Laberge, once again, because it’s generally him, said that. But I would like to remind him that I left, and I made it very clear that I would come back when we are discussing and not arguing, but obviously he doesn’t remember that. Now, I believe SCREP has a role to play, but it bogged down in the first meeting. It bogged down on the makeup.
Appointments to boards and committees — every government deals with this. It has been two years now, and this government still hasn’t dealt with it, and yet there were all kinds of promises made around it. So why is it stalled? And, yes, there were promises made about the appointments to boards and committees. Is that going to be resolved? Is that going to be dealt with? Well, you know, the people of the territory expect us to deal with this and move forward, and I would like to suggest that if there is some difficulty in coming up with a good model for this one that they look at the Public Accounts Committee. It’s working. I am very, very pleased to work with the people on that committee. They’re doing a very good job, and they’re really focused on what they feel is their mandate and what’s necessary to serve the people of the territory.
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I think that, with that attitude, that kind of approach to the other boards and committees that need to be operating, we could have some that are quite successful, but there has to be a strong commitment by the people on these committees. Like I say, I find the Public Accounts Committee is doing a good job and we have good support as well.
What does that mean? It means that we are doing the public’s good. We are fortunate to have the staff of the Auditor General working with us to give us guidance. Ultimately, decisions we make, the work that we’ve done to date and the work that we are going to do in the future do serve the public good. I think that’s what we are elected for.
Going back to the structure that we work under and going back to how people view us, it comes down to trust again. It always comes back to trust. Can you trust this government? Unfortunately people feel that there has been a break in that trust. And there is a lot of unfinished business out there.
There is the unfinished business of the loans. I’m sure everybody in here expected me to talk about the loans at some point because it has been a big issue. It doesn’t go away, and if there is probably any one single issue — and I’ve said this before — that describes this government, it is the loans. It is one thing that frustrates people across this territory. It’s unfinished.
The Premier assured the House last spring that this fall there would be a solution, a permanent solution to the loans. Well, the fall has come and the fall has gone and we are entering winter now. We are in this legislative sitting and there is no solution. But that was a promise made.
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What has happened in the meantime is that one of the ministers has now become the Deputy Premier. There has been a reward to one of the ministers who carries a substantial amount of the loan and sets the example from a leadership position to the rest of the people in this territory about paying loans.
It’s really interesting that just this morning a person came into my office and described their situation. They’ve had some tough times and they’re struggling for employment, and that. They were describing getting an overpayment from one of the departments in government and how that is dealt with. It wasn’t in reference to the loans we’ve talked about. They were describing a situation totally separate. They were saying, “Yes, you know, I was told I was overpaid and my next cheque had this much deducted, and it took four cheques to have that paid back.” That was good. I understood. I recognize that and I accept that. Now they were talking about a totally different issue, like I say; it wasn’t specifically around the loans. But when they were telling me this, I found it quite interesting to listen to them. A person who has very little money is trying to make ends meet and has fallen on hard times occasionally, quite happily accepting the fact that they had been given more money than as per their agreement, and they were quite willing to pay it back and thought it was done properly.
Now take that and put it in contrast to the situation we have within the Yukon Party government where we have probably over $300,000 owing and has been owed — now there are two separate loans — for over 10 years.
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If you average them, it’s somewhere around $300,000 — and no recognition that it’s owed. It was borrowed. The minister refuses to comment on it, refuses to recognize it and the minister refuses to make a public statement to the rest of the people of this territory that he did receive money from the territorial government, from programs that other people got money from, and was going to deal with it — no recognition. He absolutely refuses to recognize he owes anything, even though the Finance department will say it, the paperwork is all there and we all know where the money went.
You listen to the radio. The First Nation borrowed money to renovate their building and to make changes to their building in order for Yukon College to have a place set up in Carmacks. They borrowed the money; they are paying it off; I believe they have almost paid it off; they have never missed a payment. Yet the treatment they’re getting from this government is atrocious. One of the people who sits over there can’t even recognize that he owes the taxpayers of the Yukon money. Isn’t that a little bit of a conflict? Isn’t that a little bit disappointing? Doesn’t that break the trust of the people of this territory when that’s happening?
It can’t and should not be a moving target on who has to pay and who does not. The government should not have that authority. The Premier should not have the authority to decide whether or not he will collect that money. It should be expected and it is expected throughout this territory.
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$300,000 has been spent at least 1,000 times. I’m sure the other MLAs in this room have all heard people comment about it. I wouldn’t even doubt if their dear ones have made some comments about it. I’ll tell you, I’ve heard that money — $300,000 — being spent at least 1,000 times, especially by a lot of organizations that are struggling. They can’t understand it. They’re doing a public service; they’re working hard; they’re getting paid poorly. They put in a tremendous amount of time in difficult situations, and very little funding comes from the government. $300,000 would do so much to assist them. They are helping people. They are helping the public, and they can’t get it. They’re told, “No. No more money left in this program.” But guess what? Obviously there’s enough to let somebody walk away from their debt. That’s what they have a difficult time understanding.
I’ll give you an example. I’m not saying they only complain about the loan, but it’s just fresher on my mind. About three weeks ago I went to see an NGO, and they’re doing tremendous work. I was really, really surprised and pleased with the tremendous commitment, the work that they’re doing and the impact that they have on people’s lives. Their funding dries up at the end of the year, and it’s federal funding. This is typical, as many of us know in here, of the federal Liberals. They’ll start a program; they’ll put some money toward it, and then it dries up. But this is a little bit different. This federal money was, of course, brought through as part of the agreement with the aboriginal healing fund, and they were able to access that funding for a few years. They are doing amazing work. This is CAIRS, the Committee on Abuse in Residential Schools, and they are doing absolutely amazing work. I was really, really impressed with what is happening down there and how it is set up and just the number of people who are coming in there, the way they accept the place and the pride that they have with it.
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That’s a serious problem there. All the money dries up, as far as I can see. They’re going to have to close the door, and yet that is affecting a lot of people. And they’re running programs that far — in many ways, you step back and think, how can they do this, how can they be teaching skills like knife making, drum making, beadwork, metalwork? All these things are happening in the basement. Up top when I was there — I just dropped in — there was music, people were playing guitars and singing. There were people working on beadwork. There was a creative element happening. There was a supportive nature. There was a place to come and get warm. It was a cold day that day, actually. People would come in and they felt really proud of that place. As a matter of fact, I heard a very interesting story that shows you how proud and how big of an impact this group of people has had and this program has had. They were broken into and some of their artwork that they had created — some beautiful artwork that had been created — was stolen.
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And the next day, of course, they found this out. The people who come to CAIRS were very angry. Within two days they had that stuff back. They knew the streets. They knew where to go. And they went and saw the person. They dealt with it, and that stuff came back. They were very proud, but they did it themselves because they have a tremendous amount of pride in that organization and the work that is being done. And that’s theirs. You don’t often see that. I was really impressed, like I say. But the big concern is what happens in January. I think it’s in January that it happens. It will be a shame to see that closed down. So, is the territorial government willing to step in to ensure it doesn’t? Have they been in discussions with CAIRS? It’s not a secret, what I’m telling you about, because it was in the papers. I was hoping that when they were doing up the supplementary budget, they would have gone and seen them. It wasn’t there as far as I can see, but it could have been done. The issue of their funding was brought forward in the summer, and I would have liked to have seen it. There’s no question about it.
Now there have been discussions around land claims. The Premier brought that up.
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We have a ratification vote, of course, happening right now within the Whitehorse area. Kwanlin Dun First Nation is going through the ratification process and I think everyone in this room really, really hopes that they are successful. They are doing a tremendous amount of work to make it happen — there is no question about that. They are running a yes campaign and I think that is the first in the history of ratification votes, that there is an organized campaign to vote yes, not just to vote, but to actually vote yes to support this. I know many people are really working hard to make that happen and I’m hoping for the best on that.
We have, of course, what happened down in Carcross where it was rejected and they are watching Kwanlin Dun and what they are doing, and they are considering going back into presenting it again. But my understanding is that there are no negotiations happening any more down there. The federal government has made their offer, it was brought forward and presented to the people to ratify it and it was rejected and that’s where it is basically stalled. That’s a serious problem. It’s the first time in history.
So this year we’ve had two major events happening around land claim agreements. One was a rejection and another one is a yes campaign vigorously being conducted and, of course, how do you return back to the one down there?
There are still other First Nations that have not come to an agreement yet to take to the people or are not willing to take it to the people. And there are areas where there are no negotiations happening at all at this present time. Southeast Yukon — there are still stalemates as far as I can understand it down there. I didn’t hear the Premier indicate that the federal government has come back to the table, and that is a big concern. I think we would all like to see a settlement there for the benefit of the people. But it’s not happening under the Yukon Party watch, as the Premier likes to call it — “the watch”.
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White River — again another area that needs a lot of work. There are a lot of issues and concerns in that area. So there are outstanding issues.
Land claims — is there certainty? Of course there isn’t. There’s no certainty at all and the Yukon Party government hasn’t brought any certainty in. No matter how they like to spin it, it hasn’t happened. We’re still facing these kinds of situations. If anything, in some ways they’re more volatile than they were before. So there has been a failure for the last two years of that happening, and the First Nations have a lot of concerns. As the Premier indicated, there will be 15 reasonably equal territorial governments that have to be considered. We’re a long way away from the 15 still, as far as I can see.
I haven’t necessarily seen the actions that the Premier has taken down in the southeast Yukon area with the Kaska as advancing the settlements. If anything, from what I read in the paper, the Chief of Liard First Nation indicated they’re quite willing to sign agreements but there’s no reason to be at the table right now, and there could be a lot of reasons. It could be the way the federal government treated them, or what’s put on the table, all that stuff, but they had also indicated they’re getting what they want without going to the table. That’s not an incentive, of course.
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But we have to wait and see there, and see what’s going to come out of that. But I can’t see that the actions to date by the Premier — if he truly believes the settlement of land claims is a necessity to move forward economically — have been what I call positive toward that achievement. If anything, they’ve been a negative.
Oil and gas: the Premier mentioned Devon drilling after a few decades. Well, yes, that was going to happen. We knew that. There was an Oil and Gas Act brought in when the NDP was in, and it was well-received and the industry liked it. There haven’t been hardly any changes at all to it, as far as I know. Obviously the Yukon Party likes the work that the NDP did in that regard. Devon was planning to do some drilling and they’ve gone ahead and done it. But we also have the Peel River watershed area and the plateau there and what happened there. And there was nothing. I look forward to the minister standing and explaining exactly why no one took him up on it.
Now I think there are some outstanding issues around that. I think the industry stayed away. They want to have more certainty. They want to see some changes made. They want to see some settlement. Definitely the First Nations have some very strong concerns that need to be addressed.
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When the Premier talks about working together, well, you can’t go out and put out calls for oil and gas exploration unless all the parties that are affected are involved, if you work together. And I know the Na Cho Nyäk Dun had some very strong concerns and have expressed them to the Premier, and I believe he probably expressed them to the minister — I’ve definitely heard them — that they need to be part of it.
Mining — now, these are traditional. What we’re talking about right now, of course, are traditional resource activities in the Yukon. This is old traditional employment. These are activities that people have made their life around in this area. But has there been a mine that has opened yet, after two years? Is there actually an up-and-running mine after two years? I didn’t hear the Premier mention that, for some reason. Maybe that was an omission. Maybe there are some mines out there that are up and running that I’m not familiar with, but I don’t think so. I think it would be well-received. As a matter of fact, there have been closures.
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So, after two years, what has happened? Exploration is up; that’s good. Everybody knows that when exploration goes up, it’s almost always connected to mineral prices or oil and gas prices. Anybody who thinks it isn’t is misleading people if they say it. So there are a lot of factors, as well as that. There has been a lot of excitement about some of the finds in certain areas of the Yukon. Gem finds definitely stimulated activity in this area. There are deposits in the Yukon that have been known about for a long time that need more exploration. There’s potential; there’s always potential. But every single government has had potential. Every single government has recognized the potential and worked with the industries.
I do not believe there has been an anti-mining government in the territory in the last 20 years. I do not believe there has been an anti-oil and gas industry government in the last 20 years.
The member opposite, the Member for Lake Laberge, once again falls back on his old favourite of party politics. He can’t seem to rise above it. He says the NDP. As I just said, the Oil and Gas Act was brought in by the NDP. This is one that was done with the industry; they liked it; it was well-received. Obviously he seems to have this party viewpoint that was pumped into his head at some point and, like a jack-o’-lantern, he jumps up and barks out every once in awhile.
The NDP has a phenomenal record.
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Unparliamentary language
Deputy Speaker: Order please. Relating the member’s head to a jack-o’-lantern is out of order and inappropriate, and I’d ask the member to retract that characterization.
Withdrawal of remark
Mr. Hardy: I will, Mr. Deputy Speaker, though I didn’t relate his head to the jack-o’-lantern. I related his whole body, and I do apologize. I do retract that. It’s Hallowe’en and that was on my mind, maybe, or my subconscious. However, I do retract that. Sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
But you have to just look at all the programs that have been brought in to help stimulate mining activities. Almost all of them were brought in by the NDP and they were all supported by the industry and we continue to reap the benefits from them. But where are the mines? I don’t see them yet. So, once we start to see some, then I’m sure that will generate a fair amount of activity and jobs.
Now, going to jobs, there are interesting arguments around that. You can point very quickly to 100 jobs that were created, or 200 jobs that were created, at two or three stores in town. Great big megastores were built. This is controversial, but some people would say those jobs were created by the NDP because of an agreement they struck to develop the property.
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I wouldn’t say that, but it did allow that land to be opened up and there’s now a tremendous amount of activity happening there that is employing a lot of people. Now I wouldn’t say they’re great-paying jobs, a lot of them. They’re in the lower bracket, but it’s employment for people. I always hope that the pay will increase. But there is no question about it — there is a direct link to activities of a government of the day that helped stimulate that to happen. That made a change.
I just read a 2002 report that indicated that the economy was on an upswing. Jobs were increasing. Mineral prices looked like they were going to get stronger. Oil and gas prices looked like they were probably going to go up. There was more tourism; there was more this; there was more that. That was in 2002. At that time it was a Liberal government. By winter, it was a Yukon Party government. That trend continued. I didn’t see a stalling of that. That economic prosperity or activity continued along those lines. Now governments have to be careful what they lay claim to. Things don’t turn around overnight. I think it was the Premier who said way back a year ago something about turning around the economy is like trying to turn around a super tanker. I think he’s very correct. That’s a term that has been used by a lot of Finance ministers and governments.
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And that’s very legitimate. It has probably got sounds reasoning. It takes a lot of work. But there are a lot of factors that are so far outside of the Yukon’s control. If those factors don’t coincide, if they don’t work with the government, there is not much in some areas that you can do. One of these, of course, is mineral prices and oil and gas prices. That is outside of every government. That’s the market. When they go up, of course, there is always more activity. When they go down, of course, places shut down and people scale back.
I can think of placer mining friends up in the creeks. Some of them scaled back when the prices in gold dropped, way back. And when prices in gold started rising, they were able to hire this person, hire somebody back. They were able to buy a piece of equipment and they could expand their operations, knowing full well that probably the prices were going to drop again. It could be five years from now, it could be 10 years, but knowing full well that when that happens they will scale back again. They are being careful about their debt, what they carry. And because of that many have been able to stay in business for many years. They haven’t overextended themselves. But they are also very concerned about a lot of other issues too.
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And there are always the social issues. There are always the environmental issues. And this is one area, in environmental issues, where this government has completely fallen down. Given the shuffle that they had, putting the Environment portfolio with the loans officer who writes his own loans ticket, to me thatwas basically saying that the environment will have no role to play in this government.
So I have a big concern about that. You cannot remove the environment from the economy. They have to find that balance, and you have to recognize that a pristine environment creates jobs — a lot of jobs. A pristine environment creates tourism — lots of tourism. People can go anywhere and see activity of men and women on the landscape, but there are very few places in the world left where you can have wilderness and really feel like you actually are in a pristine environment, a wilderness, where you can take a walk and everything drops off. There are not many places left in the world like that. We are very, very fortunate.
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And if we are too careless, we will lose that and won’t get it back. And if we lose that, we will lose an economic engine, one of those contributors that often are very stable. One thing about tourism, it’s quite amazing — I’ve heard tourism and the spending of governments in tourism slagged by lots of people and lots of other industries. They don’t understand it. But every government very quickly understands that tourism is pretty stable. It employs a lot of people, and identifying why people come to the Yukon and what draws them to the Yukon — I mean, on the motorized list, one of the obvious reasons is that, of course, a lot of people are heading to Alaska and we get the carry-through. But there are a lot of other reasons. People come to the Yukon and they want to stay an extra day. We’ve had so many programs and initiatives — stay an extra day and on Yukon time — anything to promote the Yukon. But fundamentally it’s really promoted around our pristine environment, and people will come a long way to experience where we are so fortunate to live. I see it continuing to grow. I don’t see it shrinking. It’s stable. It employs a lot of people. It’s a very good contributor to our economy. That’s our environment.
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I don’t know why else. I’m sure the minister will enlighten me, but I think from my viewpoint that’s pretty well the number one reason people come to the territory, besides just passing through, but as a destination: it’s our pristine environment.
But there are also other areas of employment and one, of course, is the outfitters. They need a good environment. It can’t be one where there are roads criss-crossing every which way, activity of one nature only dominating the landscape. They need wilderness in order to conduct their type of business: guiding, outfitting, trapping — that’s another industry.
Year after year people trap. It used to be bigger, it has fallen off lately, but it is an industry and it contributes and it allows people to make a living, and a good living. But if the environment is not treated properly, trapping drops off.
There are lots of other examples. You know, ecotourism, sightseeing, and all of that stuff. Agriculture: there is another industry. Agriculture needs a clean environment in order to function properly. It’s a growing industry. It’s interesting. Some of the activities that are happening in the agricultural industry that I think are quite exciting: the organic movement in the Yukon continues to grow. It grows because there is a demand out there. People want to know that the foods that they are eating now are healthy and there is a big concern. We’re seeing a lot of cottage industries around the supply of eggs and chicken, turkeys, bison, beef, stuff like that, and elk. People are supporting those industries because they feel that the meats and the vegetables they are eating from these farms are of a pure nature. They’re willing to pay a little bit extra for it.
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That’s good for the territory. If you can grow your own foods and sell it locally, that’s wonderful. At some point, if things continue to develop the way they are, there will be possibly the opportunity for export. Maybe there is some of that happening already. But then again, there is another industry that has to be part of the equation when you’re looking at development.
The arts industry, the film industry — I’ve said this before. That cap I’ve seen on a person’s head whose name was Snow. It said, “Think snow.” What drew people here for that? What was the whole thing around that? It was that we can supply snow. Now, I know some people wish the snow didn’t come so early and didn’t stay so late. I like the early snow but around March I would like to start seeing the snow melt. However, a lot of films and commercials and stuff like that are now looking for snow to do the shots in, and the Yukon has been continuing to develop the film industry and the availability of training and all that, and I applaud the government for continuing with that work, so much of which was done under the NDP government. And they continue to support it and expand it and that’s wonderful because I believe that creates a lot of jobs. And again, it’s one of those stabilizers when other things turn down. If we have enough of these contributing to our economy, it’s not so devastating when one goes down. And a lot of us have lived through a Yukon that did not have the diversification in the economy. And any government that just puts all their eggs in one basket is really asking for a complete failure, because we’ve lived through it. I have lived through the collapse of the mining industry a couple times, and it’s very difficult for people and you look forward to them getting better and getting stronger.
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The bottom falls out of the mineral prices for whatever reason and people lose their jobs. It could be a specif