098 Hansard
Whitehorse, Yukon
Tuesday, May 6, 2008 — 1:00 p.m.
Speaker: I will now call the House to order. At this time, we will proceed with prayers.
Prayers
DAILY ROUTINE
Speaker: We will proceed with the Order Paper.
Are there any tributes?
TRIBUTES
In recognition of National Hospice and Palliative Care Week
Hon. Mr. Cathers: It is my pleasure to rise today on behalf of the Assembly to formally recognize National Hospice and Palliative Care Week, which is celebrated from May 5 to 11.
Palliative care is a special kind of care for individuals and families that are living with a life-threatening illness that is usually in an advanced stage. The goal of palliative care is comfort and dignity for the person living with the illness as well as the best quality of life for both this person and their family.
The continuing care branch of Health and Social Services was pleased yesterday to officially launch our new palliative care program that is the result of much hard work by many people over many years in developing and establishing that program.
It is a collaborative initiative that is supported by an advisory committee made up of care providers from Whitehorse General Hospital, Hospice Yukon Society, First Nation health programs, pharmacists, local physicians and continuing care staff.
The program will provide support and services to Yukoners living with a terminal illness and their families. It includes a volunteer coordinator, a registered nurse and a social worker. This team will enable people to die with dignity, free of pain, surrounded by their loved ones in a setting of their choice.
Death and terminal illness is something that is often not spoken of freely in our society, and people living with terminal illness in their family can feel somewhat secluded.
This program will help those individuals and their family receive the comfort and supports they need to ensure their end-of-life care is dignified.
We formally recognize and thank Hospice Yukon and the palliative care providers for the value they bring to our society.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In recognition of International Youth Week
Hon. Mr. Fentie: I rise today on behalf of the Assembly to pay recognition to Youth Week taking place this year from May 4 to 10.
Youth Week is an annual event that celebrates all aspects of youth culture, including diversity and achievement. It shines a spotlight on the positive achievements of youth in our society.
Youth Week strives to build stronger connections between young people by bringing together youth from many different communities and networks across Canada and the world.
The Yukon government is very pleased to see the community celebrating our young people throughout this week. Several events have been organized by Bringing Youth Toward Equality, also known as BYTE, a local youth organization. Youth can enjoy a movie night at BYTE on Wednesday, and barbecues at F.H. Collins and Porter Creek high schools, and on Saturday, May 10, the City of Whitehorse will celebrate with the grand opening of the Chillax’n Lounge at the Canada Games Centre.
Let’s acknowledge and celebrate the contributions of Yukon youth this week and indeed, Mr. Speaker, throughout the year. By honouring their talents, ideas and abilities, we can inspire proactive youth involvement in our communities year-round.
Let’s ensure their voices are heard and recognized in a constructive and positive manner. Through the Youth Directorate, the Yukon government supports the participation of Yukon youth in social, economic, cultural and political arenas. We do this by providing support and funding to key organizations that serve young people, including Bringing Youth Toward Equality.
We are pleased to provide opportunities and projects that support youth and in turn help build healthy and safer communities. These opportunities include the Youth Directorate’s activities funding, which supports activities, training and employment opportunities for young people across the territory.
Yukon youth also benefit from the youth investment fund. The fund supports many community-driven initiatives aimed at addressing the needs of Yukon youth, including leadership training, after-school activities, physical activities, cultural events and workshops.
We are working to engage youth because they can help shape our world for today and tomorrow. Issues like climate change will impact their world, which is why our government is working to engage and connect young leaders here in the Yukon on this topic.
Let’s be aware of the challenges facing young people so we can help youth achieve their full potential. At the end of this month, our government will launch a new initiative, helping youth avoid some of the challenges they face today, including the pitfalls of drinking and substance abuse at a young age.
Let’s encourage youth to take advantage of the opportunities at hand and contribute to the future of our territory and our nation. As the saying goes, “We have not inherited the Earth from our parents; we simply borrow it from our children.”
Youth Week celebrates the contributions young people make in our communities, our country and in the world; thus, I would ask all honourable members to join me in recognizing the outstanding contributions of Yukon youth and to recognize Youth Week, both here in Yukon and internationally.
Mr. Elias: I rise on behalf of the Official Opposition to pay tribute to International Youth Week, and in particular, our Yukon youth.
Starting as a small grassroots movement in 1995, Youth Week has grown into an internationally recognized event held annually in May. It is a week of fun, interaction and celebration intending to build a stronger connection between young people and their communities, and to profile the issues, accomplishments and power of youth.
Locally, the organization Bringing Youth Toward Equality, formally known as BYTE, has become a leading advocate for youth programs, issues and initiatives in the Yukon. BYTE, working in partnership with a very large number of local businesses, governments, service providers and fellow non-profit groups, has been involving youth in every step of the process of decision-making. BYTE seeks to bring about positive change by promoting social consciousness toward youth culture, human rights, the environment — especially climate change — racism, violence, substance abuse, homelessness, spirituality, sexuality and politics.
BYTE offers our youth a chance to unite to strengthen their voice and bring about positive change for the well-being of everyone. BYTE hosts a week of events to celebrate our youth.
Events scheduled this year begin today with a BYTE annual general meeting. On Thursday, there’s a barbecue at Porter Creek Secondary, and on Friday the barbecue is at F.H. Collins Secondary.
Saturday night from 7 to 9 p.m. BYTE will help the City of Whitehorse with its grand opening of Chillax’n Lounge for youth at the Canada Games Centre.
Also, the latest issue of Toxic Blend Youth ‘Zine is available. This do-it-yourself magazine is a venue for young people to express themselves in a creative way through photos, poems and drawings. This is a refreshing document of young Yukon writers and artists who dare to speak their minds.
This week is about awareness — a chance for our youth to learn more about the opportunities and resources available to them and to become more familiar with some of their rights.
Youth Week offers us the opportunity to honour the talents, ideas and abilities of our young people and make a commitment to ensure their voices are heard.
We salute all the volunteer organizations that offer our youth the opportunity to bring positive change into their lives and the world around us.
Young people truly are our future, as are all the grade 11 students from Porter Creek Secondary School and their teacher, Mr. Wes Sullivan, in the gallery today. I’m sure that Mr. Sullivan remembers my attendance at Porter Creek Secondary School.
How we support them now goes a long way toward empowering them to achieve their true potential.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Hardy: My message might be slightly different from what you just heard. I think the people who spoke before me said very legitimate things to the youth.
We often say that the youth are our future. We were all youths at one time as well. We were all in grade 11 — or some of us were — and some of us didn’t make it through grade 11. Many in the world do not have the opportunities for the education that is offered in Canada.
The challenges that are facing our youth and the youth who are in our gallery today are things we and our ancestors have done to this planet, to the cultures and to the countries.
One of the challenges that face them is war. We have seen an increase in war and what impact it has around this world. We’re not sure where it’s going — and the violence out there. Famine — many people in this world are now facing serious crises because they can’t get enough food for themselves or their children. When I say not enough food, I’m talking about a bowl of rice a day. A bowl of rice is all they’re asking for, and they can’t even get it for their children in this world today.
This is the world we’re leading; this is the world we as elected people are involved in and have to take responsibility for. This is what we’re passing on to our youth.
Environmental degradation and climate change are huge issues. Who will we turn to? We have to turn to our youth. You are the future. We are the ones who have not been able to deal with these issues. We have failed our youth, but that doesn’t mean we stop. Many of us still think we’re kind of young ourselves, but we have to continue working. Part of that work is education; part of that work is passing on things we have learned and the mistakes we have made, to try to indicate that you — our future — are the ones who can make it a better world.
It’s not about a week or the acknowledgement of youth; it’s about our future. That’s what this is really about. That’s why we’re all here. You are our hope. My children are my hope; children such as yourselves in all the schools, at all ages, are the hope for our future. Please do not make the mistakes we have made, both in our individual lives and our decisions around the world.
Please recognize that we’re a global world now. Racism should not exist. We have not been able to defeat it. Famine — children going hungry.
Very briefly now, I want to leave you with one last thing: I read a book a few weeks ago. It’s called Three Cups of Tea. It’s about an American man, a young guy, who went to climb K2. He got lost coming down, walked into a village of 300 or 400 in Pakistan. They had no school. The kids were in the dirt using sticks, trying to write out their lessons, and somebody was volunteering to teach them.
This was only 10 or 12 years ago. He made a promise to build schools for those children. He built schools for $12,000 in over 50 villages in Pakistan. That is where the Taliban is coming from. That is where war is happening. That is where those villages are being bombed, and those children are learning, and they are growing, and they are having an impact on the future in that area and they are trying to turn it around. That is what you can give them as well. You can work together with all youth around the world to make a change for the better.
Speaker: Are there any further tributes?
In recognition of National Mental Health Week
Mr. Hardy: I have another tribute, and this is one that is written out. I rise on behalf of the Legislative Assembly to pay tribute to National Mental Health Week, May 5 to 11. The Canadian Mental Health Association has declared this week a time for urging employers to take responsibility for the mental health of their employees.
Eighty-nine percent of Canadians say their working environment is increasingly stressful. This results in almost the same percentage reporting sick on an average of six times in the past year. More than 2 million employees in Canada suffer mental illness at any given time. The implications for the economy and the impact on society are overwhelming.
Mental illnesses are complex. They can arise from social, psychological, genetic and biological disturbances. Professionals and the general public are beginning to realize there are connections between mental and physical health. As with all illness, a healthy body is a starting point for prevention of disease. Stress, burnout and depression can lead to more serious illnesses. Depression is the fastest growing category of days lost to the workplace. It is linked to heart disease, diabetes and autoimmune disorders. If workplaces do not address mental health problems, days lost will increase and productivity will decrease, leading to the higher cost of disability and health benefits.
Much can be done in workplaces toward a mentally healthy lifestyle. The Canadian Mental Health Association is asking employers to do more and to make mental health their business. Some of the things that businesses and government workplaces can do include the following: offering flexible hours and changes to work from home; training managers to recognize stress-related illness; supporting work/life balance with stress control programs; eliminating unnecessary or unproductive meetings; communicating far more clearly; allowing staff to control their own priorities. Government would also do well to endorse working toward a national mental health strategy as recommended by the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology’s report, Out of the Shadows At Last — Transforming Mental Health and Mental Illness and Addiction Services in Canada.
Speaker: Are there any further tributes?
Introduction of visitors.
INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS
Hon. Mr. Rouble: I would ask all members in the Assembly to join me in welcoming the grade 11 class from Porter Creek Secondary School and their teacher, Mr. Wes Sullivan. Welcome.
Applause
Speaker: Are there any returns or documents for tabling?
TABLING RETURNS AND DOCUMENTS
Hon. Mr. Rouble: I rise in the House today to table the Yukon College annual report and financial statements for the 2006-07 year.
Speaker: Are there any further returns or documents for tabling?
Reports of committees.
Are there any petitions?
Are there any bills to be introduced?
Are there any notices of motion?
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr. Nordick: I rise to today to give notice of the following motion:
THAT this House urges the federal Department of Canadian Heritage to provide appropriate and timely funding to enable Northern Native Broadcasting Yukon to maintain its programming and to retain its staff; and
THAT a copy of this motion be forwarded to the federal minister responsible for Canadian Heritage.
Mr. Mitchell: I rise today to give notice of the following motion:
THAT this House urges the Yukon government to send aid through the Canadian International Development Agency to help rebuild Myanmar, formerly known as Burma, from the devastating effects of this past weekend’s cyclone.
Mr. Elias: I give notice of the following motion:
THAT this House urges the Yukon Party government to lobby the federal minister responsible for Canadian Heritage to:
(1) promptly make available the financial resources required for Northern Native Broadcasting Yukon to continue to produce the television programs of Nedaa and Ha’shgoon, and
(2) ensure that the non-profit society of Northern Native Broadcasting Yukon receives the annual core funding it requires to operate in a consistent and timely manner.
Mr. Hardy: I give notice of the following motion:
THAT this House urges the Yukon government to follow the Yukon substance abuse action plan by concentrating on the three neglected strategic directions, namely:
(1) harm reduction, by activating the community harm reduction fund and increasing support for young women living in high-risk situations;
(2) prevention and education, by improving alcohol and drug education in Yukon schools;
(3) treatment, by ensuring that all Yukon communities have access to the telehealth addictions counselling service; and
by providing more resources to support communities to develop plans to identify and combat particular factors that contribute to substance abuse in their communities.
NOTICES OF MOTION FOR THE PRODUCTION OF PAPERS
Mr. Fairclough: I give notice of the following motion for the production of papers:
THAT this House do issue an order for the return of the following documents in regard to the most recent contract for the school bus services in Whitehorse and the school bus services in Yukon rural communities:
(1) the request from the contractor to the government to release the contractor from the contract;
(2) the response from the government agreeing to release the contractor from the contract; and
(3) the contract signed between the government and the contractor.
Speaker: Are there any further notices of motion?
Are there any ministerial statements?
This then brings us to Question Period.
QUESTION PERIOD
Question re: Education standards
Mr. Fairclough: I have a question for the Minister of Education.
In the pan-Canadian assessment program, Prince Edward Island, like Yukon, did not fare well in the education survey either; however, when confronted by the media and questioned, he told reporters that it was a problem and pledged more money to programs. He did not hide. He did not say that the tests were merely an opinion. He did not question the validity of the survey. He accepted responsibility and said he would do better.
The minister knows what it means to be responsible. Will the minister accept that responsibility and tell the House what he proposes to do and when he will do it?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: The Yukon government is certainly part of the Council of Ministers of Education. We have participated in this study in the past, unlike other jurisdictions that had their own reasons for not participating. We are studying and analyzing the results of the PCAP, as well as looking at the other indicators that provide us information about Yukon’s education system. These include the Yukon achievement tests, the provincial exams and other statistical indicators that we have from Statistics Canada and other sources about the state of education here in the Yukon.
Mr. Speaker, we have many things in our education system to be proud of. We do have other challenges. We will continue to work with all our partners involved in educating Yukon’s youth to ensure that Yukon youth are provided with the opportunities that they need to succeed in today’s world.
Mr. Fairclough: Well, the minister can set the tone right here and now. He can announce today that he will rescind the following teacher cuts. Here is the list: Jack Hulland Elementary School lost one position; Selkirk Elementary School lost a half a position. In Hidden Valley, one teacher is gone. In Porter Creek Secondary School, 2.5 positions are gone; Golden Horn Elementary, one position is gone; Grey Mountain School, .5 of a position is gone; and in Johnson Elementary School in Watson Lake, one teacher is gone. If he did this, it would at least send the right message. How can he say here and now that there will be no cuts in the schools? Can he say that, here and now? Will he do that?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: Mr. Speaker, unfortunately the opposition is only putting half of the information, half of the facts and half of the truth on the record.
Unparliamentary language
Speaker: Order please. “Half of the truth” is an indication that somebody may be misleading the House. Honourable member, don’t use that terminology.
You have the floor.
Hon. Mr. Rouble: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will certainly not mislead the House. We know how many teachers there are in the system. We have seen the number grow. We’ve seen the number of teachers grow; we’ve seen the number of education assistants grow; we’ve seen the number of students in our system decline.
The Department of Education has responded — as they do every year — to address pressure points in different communities in different schools. The whole Department of Education is working with the school administrators, with the school councils, as they do every year to work toward allocating our resources. We will continue to work with all involved. As we’ve heard, Yukon has the highest per capita investment. We have one of the lowest student/teacher ratios anywhere in Canada and we’ll continue to make those investments in Yukon’s education system.
Mr. Fairclough: The minister wanted facts — here are the facts. That is the evidence. It can’t be hidden. There has to be more than having more discussions with the minister’s many partners. We’ve discussed, we’ve consulted and we’ve reported for years. At some point we have to do something.
Yesterday the minister mentioned other resources that he relies upon such as the Fraser Institute. Here’s what they had to say about the Yukon secondary schools. I quote: “The news is not good…Among the Yukon schools, only Vanier Catholic Secondary in Whitehorse comes close to the all-schools’ average rating. The other three are consistently and substantially below average.”
I want to hear an acknowledgement and a commitment from this minister to bring forth changes.
Will the minister make that commitment?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: The member opposite has heard the list of examples in the past many times. We embarked on an education reform project with our partners in education, and that project has brought back many different recommendations about addressing different issues in our education system. We’re now working with our partners on the New Horizons project to institute some of these changes. Some of the ones that have already been included are things like the Wilson Reading program, the Reading Recovery program, the Whitehorse Individual Learning Centre, experiential education, and the expansion of other programs.
Teachers are changing the way they teach in the classroom; we’re working with our curriculum consultants to ensure our curriculum meets the needs of Yukon students and prepares them for life outside the Yukon. We’re certainly not making any changes to reduce the quality of our educational system.
We’ll continue to work on all areas and look at innovative and creative solutions, some I’m sure the members opposite will agree with and some I’m sure they’ll disagree with. We know that if we continue to do the same thing over and over again, the same way, we’ll get the same results. Yukoners have told us they want to see different results; therefore, we’re making changes.
Question re: Education reform
Mr. Fairclough: Same minister, Mr. Speaker. The education reform project was struck because there were problems in our education system in the Yukon. There would have been no need for such an extensive and expensive study if all was well.
The authors of the report were very clear: there must be a change from a top-down-driven system to a bottom-up model. From this new model of governance would come the inspiration and vision to move our system of education forward. Unfortunately for all Yukoners, the minister and his boss do not share the vision of the reform report. They do not believe Yukoners should have a say in shaping their children’s education. They treat the report as if it were some kind of conspiracy to undermine public government.
Why is the minister agreeing with the Premier, or does he believe it’s time to catch up with the rest of Canada and reshape the top-down-driven system?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: Mr. Speaker, I would encourage the member to listen to debate and to probably read the questions before he comes into the Assembly. If he were in here he would hear about what was going on in our education system today. He would hear about the New Horizons project; he would hear about different initiatives. He would look at things like the Whitehorse Individual Learning Centre or the expansion of distance learning opportunities. He would look at the number of education assistants in our schools. He would look at the teacher/student ratios, which is the lowest in Canada. We have about one teacher for every 11 or 12 students on average throughout our system. That isn’t the same in every classroom, and we know that. We know that is the way averages work. But what it does demonstrate is a willingness to involve Yukoners, a willingness to listen, willingness to change and a desire to improve the system and to improve the outcome for all Yukoners.
Mr. Fairclough: The minister is full of insults, but no solutions. I want to tell the minister that I have been listening to the member opposite. I am going to quote him from yesterday’s Blues. He said this, and I quote: “I’m amazed at how the member opposite sees spending tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on a new bureaucratic model will help our kids learn. I don’t agree with that.”
That is coming from that minister, Mr. Speaker. The minister has a problem, and his solution to date has been to cut teachers. His solution is to maintain the same top-down-driven system that excludes Yukoners from having input. His solution is to exclude the new direction from the people having input, and that is a governance model. His solution is to ignore anything and everything that he doesn’t agree with. His solution is to maintain command and control — the same old tired Yukon Party position.
The minister needs to be very clear —
Speaker: Order please. Ask the question.
Mr. Fairclough: Why is there more public debate when the minister has already made up his mind on governance models?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the folks who were involved in the education reform project. There is a lot of good information in there. There is a lot of other information that also needs to be discussed, debated and rated for its merits.
One of the ideas in the education reform initiative is to put a federal employee on a board that would provide recommendations to the Yukon government. We have discussed in this Assembly numerous times the areas of devolution and the responsibilities of provinces and territories. Certainly, putting a federal representative on education in the Yukon is a step backward.
We are going forward. We are working with school councils. We are working to build on their school learning plans. We have opportunities for parents to become involved with their child’s education with individual learning assessments. We have opportunities for parents and people in the community to be involved in the school council. Also, we have a wide variety of mechanisms for other people to become involved in education and help shape Yukon’s education system.
We recognize that there are challenges in the system. We will work with all involved — with different orders of government, with the Department of Education, with other government departments, with parents and everyone involved in order to increase the quality of education and the outcomes of our educational system.
Mr. Fairclough: Well, the minister flip-flops. Yesterday, he said he didn’t agree with the government’s model. It changes from day to day. The minister yesterday was quite talkative. He said, and I quote: “If the member opposite wants to see grassroots involvement, he should go to a school council meeting and one of the planning sessions to see how parents can get involved and set priorities and issues for their school.” The minister must have been referring to the Golden Horn School Council. They have a lot to say to this minister about how he involves grassroots. I have met with that school council.
Part of what this council had to say to this minister is that this is disingenuous — a “d” word I can’t use — just downright disheartening and disrespectful. That is what they had to say. Golden Horn has had enough and Yukoners have had enough of this closed-shop, top-down approach. Words are all we get from this minister. Yukoners want action: restore the cuts. Will the minister do that?
Hon. Mr. Rouble: Mr. Speaker, let’s take a look at the budget. Let’s take a look at the amount the Yukon Party government has increased education. It has gone from $100 million a year to $130 million a year. The number of teachers has grown; the number of education assistants in our schools has grown. Unfortunately, the number of students in our system has decreased.
Mr. Speaker, we have increased partnerships with the Yukon First Nations programs and partnership unit; we established a relationship with the Yukon Association of School Councils, Boards and Committees.
Indeed, Mr. Speaker, the Yukon Association of School Councils, Boards and Committees, a representative of CYFN, and a representative of Yukon College were all on the Premier’s hiring committee when it came time to look for a deputy minister. That’s being inclusive, starting with what I would argue is the most important position in our education system, save for the teacher in the classroom.
We are continuing the work with all of our partners in education; we recognize there are challenges; we recognize that we’ll need to make the necessary investments, which we are doing.
Also, we need to look at programming changes, which are being looked at. We’ll work with the teachers in the classroom, with the administrators in the school, with the Department of Education and all of our partners in education to ensure that we have a responsive education system that meets the needs of each child and the community.
Question re: Liquor Act amendments
Mr. Hardy: Under the existing Yukon Liquor Act, no one under the age of 19 is allowed to buy or consume alcohol or to enter a licensed premise. But there is one exception. Under section 90(2), a person under the legal drinking age cannot consume alcohol in a licensed dining room or restaurant, in their homes or at a reception. This is permitted as long as a parent, grandparent or legal guardian is present and either provides a drink or gives consent. There is nothing in the existing act or the proposed amendments that sets a minimum age for this provision.
When the act was being reviewed, did the minister not see a need to set a minimum age for kids having a drink with their meal or is he relying on regulations to bring some common sense to this provision?
Hon. Mr. Kenyon: The simple answer to that is no, the consultation that was done clearly indicated that parents wanted to be parents — in many discussions. That is a part of the old act, and we’re not proposing to change in any way.
Mr. Hardy: We can understand allowing families to observe their normal customs of having a glass of wine or beer with a meal; however, under the proposed amendments, there’s no such thing as a licensed dining room or restaurant any more. There will be something called “food primary” and “liquor primary” facilities, but even in a food primary facility, there’s no requirement to order food in order to get a drink. In other words, a family could sit in a restaurant drinking beer all afternoon, without eating a morsel, and the kids could be drinking with them.
Is the minister willing to entertain new amendments to respect the original intent of section 92, making it mandatory that a meal be served before a child is allowed to consume alcohol in a food primary facility?
Hon. Mr. Kenyon: The concept of a food primary is not sitting and drinking all day; the concept is still that there is a requirement for food being available, just not a complete meal. Good social responsibility would require that food be made available at some reasonable level. Again, this will be covered in regulations and by the policies of the Yukon Liquor Board, as they continue to do their very good work.
Mr. Hardy: I don’t think the minister knows what he’s talking about. There’s a related problem I’d like the minister to try to address this time. The new amendments will allow an underaged employee to serve alcohol in a food primary facility. Once again, the act doesn’t set a minimum age. What we could see is a 12-year-old serving beer to a table full of people who aren’t ordering any food. We could even have kids serving kids or young servers being pressured by their peers to bend the law.
The minister ignored a recommendation from the Liquor Act consultations to make it compulsory for anyone serving alcohol to complete the Be a Responsible Server program. Will the minister consider an amendment to make responsible serving training mandatory, especially so that servers under the age of 19 know their rights and responsibilities to refuse to serve someone?
Hon. Mr. Kenyon: The member opposite seems to have brought this matter to its most illogical conclusion. The legislation proposed would permit someone working in the kitchen, for instance, to deliver a drink. They may not serve it; they may not pour it; they may not mix it; they may not open the bottle, but they can at least deliver it within those circumstances. This has been looked at very, very carefully.
In terms of the Be A Responsible Server or BARS course, the decision was made that to require that of every single facility was really not reasonable; however, there are always facilities that liquor inspectors would have a concern about. The liquor inspectors have every right and the ability to require that if they feel there is a concern. We leave that with our good liquor inspectors — all five of them, frankly.
Question re: Corrections Act consultations
Mr. Hardy: I have a question for the Minister of Justice instead. Seventy percent of people in the corrections system are of First Nation ancestry. The consultation process on a new correction system has been ongoing since November 2004. There has been a great deal of public and First Nation input. The consultations on the Child and Family Services Act also went on for a long, long time and involved a lot of First Nation input. The Corrections Act consultations are now entering their final stages with a new act expected this fall.
How does the minister intend to prevent the problems that plagued the Child and Family Services Act from reoccurring with the new Corrections Act?
Hon. Ms. Horne: The consultation is continuing and it is very intense. We travelled through the communities in the Yukon to hear what they would like to see in the act. Their approval is of utmost importance to us. It has been ongoing for over five years at this point. We would hope it will reach a favourable conclusion.
Thank you.
Mr. Hardy: No answer. I will try again. There were hundreds of recommendations in the final consultation report in March 2006. There are still serious concerns that many will be ignored by this government, especially after what happened with the Child and Family Services Act. Some First Nations are worried that their views won’t be adequately represented in the draft legislation the minister tables this fall.
For one thing, there are five Justice department representatives on the working group and only one representing the Council of Yukon First Nations. The legislative advisory committee responsible for how the draft act is actually written has six members, but doesn’t include legal counsel from any of the First Nations.
With this obvious imbalance, how can the minister ensure that the diversity of First Nations’ perspectives is fully represented in the final product?
Hon. Ms. Horne: The member opposite can be assured that the First Nations have every right to hire their own legal counsel to go through the act, and from what we have heard so far, there have been favourable comments on the consultation.
Mr. Hardy: I hope this government is offering to pay some of the costs of legal services, because that is very expensive, as we all know.
Once again, just like the Child and Family Services Act mess, the major problem some First Nations have is with timing. Community meetings to discuss the findings from the early rounds of consultation are just getting started, and they are supposed to last until mid-June. That leaves only a few months for the legislative committee, Yukon government and Council of Yukon First Nations to make sure that First Nations’ views are properly included in the draft legislation. All this is happening at what is probably the worst time of year to expect First Nations to be involved in meetings.
If First Nations ask the minister to extend the consultation process until they are confident the new act addresses their concerns, or to allow witnesses to appear before all Members of the Legislative Assembly, is she willing to do that or are we going to see a repeat of what happened this spring with the Child and Family Services Act?
Hon. Ms. Horne: To answer the member opposite, we are already discussing lengthening the consultation period. We will bring it to the Legislature in the spring sitting. We have been putting into the act what we have heard from Yukoners and First Nations.
Question re: Air quality in government buildings
Mr. Mitchell: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Health and Social Services. A couple of weeks ago, we asked for the reports done on the air quality at the Whitehorse General Hospital. The minister refused to make them public. He said that everything was fine, so don’t worry. The minister would not release those reports. He did not even mention a recent inspection report done by Occupational Health and Safety. This report confirms that the hospital was in violation of the Yukon’s Occupational Health and Safety Act over air quality controls. Why did the minister refuse to release all this information? Did he not think it was important for Yukoners to know that the hospital was violating the Occupational Health and Safety Act?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: The member ought to be aware of the fact that his comments today are not accurately reflecting the debate we had. In fact, I indicated to the member at that time, and would remind him again today, that air quality reports that are conducted by Occupational Health and Safety are conducted by that body. In the case of the hospital, when they request an air quality report to be done, it is under the Yukon Hospital Corporation Board of Directors. I made available to the member the numbers from the report he was referring to — February of 2006, I believe. As far as a copy of the report goes, for the member to suggest that I refused to make it available does not accurately reflect the facts; in fact, as I reminded the member, this is in the jurisdiction of the Hospital Corporation. I would encourage him to discuss that and bring it up with them. I have passed on his request to the Hospital Corporation for their consideration. I would encourage them to make that report available, if the member or others wish to see it.
The member will not read the report and will not understand it, based on his past representations in this House.
Mr. Mitchell: This minister is the minister responsible for both the Yukon Hospital Corporation and the Yukon Workers’ Compensation Health and Safety Board. We don’t have an opportunity to directly question the chair of the Hospital Corporation. The minister said he has looked into the report and he’s not worried — it was four-star. He didn’t send the report over, so to say that I haven’t read it — he hasn’t sent it.
The minister’s plan seems to be that what people don’t know, won’t hurt them — except, in this case, it might.
An inspection report done in March of this year confirmed the hospital was in violation of the Occupational Health and Safety Act regarding air quality. This affects people who work in the hospital, people who visit the hospital and patients in the hospital. Why did the minister keep this report under wraps? Why did he refuse to share it with the public?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: Again we have a representation being made by the Leader of the Official Opposition that does not accurately and adequately reflect the facts of the matter. Occupational Health and Safety is run by the Workers’ Compensation Health and Safety Board, which is an independent, arm’s-length board. That board deals with a fund for compensation of injured workers and with occupational health and safety, and they deal with that in accordance with the law. They have the legal responsibility for executing and performance in accordance with that law.
The board, through the chair and the CEO, by law, must appear in the Assembly annually to answer to members. As the member will recall, the chair and the CEO did so earlier this session, in fact.
Again in this area, when a report is conducted by Occupational Health and Safety, if corrective action for air quality or any other measure is required, the administration exercises their responsibility to direct that corrective action be taken, and they do so in all cases. For the member to suggest they’re not doing their job is very unfortunate and I would urge him to correct the record.
Mr. Mitchell: Well, Mr. Speaker, the minister can blame the chair of the board if he wants, but I don’t think that is the right way to answer this. The point is, someone should have made this report public, and he is the minister responsible. Instead, this Yukon Party government hid the report, and they still refuse to release it. The report confirms the hospital was in violation of the Occupational Health and Safety Act. It said workers were suffering as a result.
The minister had two choices when he was informed of the contents of this report. He could have been up front with the public and informed Yukoners about the problem, or he could have hidden the report and hoped that it never became public. Unfortunately, this minister chose the latter.
Why did the minister refuse to make the report public even when I asked him to do so?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: First of all, the member is speaking of two reports, and secondly the member once again is not accurately reflecting the facts.
With regard to the report of 2006, I informed the member of the relevant numbers from the report informing that the air quality index was given a four-star rating and air cleanliness an absolute score of 100.
With regard to the recent evaluation to which the member is referring, I have not seen a copy of this report and indeed if there are issues with it, I am confident that the Hospital Corporation, contrary to the assertions by the Leader of the Official Opposition, will do their job to take the corrective action required of them by Occupational Health and Safety. I am confident that our qualified and capable staff of both boards will do their job. It is unfortunate the member is suggesting they are not doing so.
Question re: Air quality in government buildings
Mr. Mitchell: I will make the report available for the minister responsible if he can’t take the trouble to get it. I believe members of the media found it posted on public bulletin boards.
This recent inspection report done by Occupational Health and Safety confirmed that the hospital was in violation of the Yukon’s Occupational Health and Safety Act over air quality concerns. The minister hasn’t made this report public.
The report gave the hospital several deadlines to improve the situation. Areas of the hospital had to be properly cleaned and the ventilation system had to be improved.
The report indicates, and I quote, “Six of the seven workers are complaining about the adverse affects such as coughing whenever working in this office.”
Most of the Occupational, Health and Safety infractions and hazards were ordered to be addressed by April 15. Can this minister tell Yukoners if these deadlines were met and if not, why not?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: What I find amazing is that the Leader of the Official Opposition does not note the contradiction in his own statements on the floor. The Leader of the Official Opposition said that we’re keeping the report secret, and then he said it’s posted on several bulletin boards. He should make up his mind — it’s either publicly posted or it isn’t.
Now, the Leader of the Official Opposition — perhaps as he reads further in his script, he can make up his mind on which it is — but in fact, with regard to any reports of air quality, if they are commissioned by the Hospital Corporation or any other body, they are of course made available to those in authority in that body, and in this case, Yukon Hospital Corporation.
If they are done by the Occupational Health and Safety Board — and I remind members that any employee in a public workplace or in a private sector workplace can request the Occupational Health and Safety Board to do an evaluation of the safety of their workplace. The qualified staff at Occupational Health and Safety will direct that corrective action be taken, if such is needed. They have the ability to levy penalties on any employer or manager who does not take the action they direct.
Mr. Mitchell: Let me point out for the minister what is the contradiction. The minister said a short while ago that he hasn’t seen the report, but it is apparently publicly posted. He wants us to go searching in various places to find it. He’s supposed to be in charge. He’s supposed to know it.
Poor ventilation affects the physical and psychological health of workers. Poor ventilation allows for the accumulation and mixture of hazardous contaminants. The resulting physical effects on workers are harmful. Psychological and other health effects like stress arise when workers know they are constantly exposed to ventilation hazards. This is the situation at the hospital. Six of seven workers in one area have reported feeling ill. The minister tried his best to keep this report from the public. He hasn’t released it when he was asked for it in this House.
When was the minister first informed about the contents of this report?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: Again the Leader of the Official Opposition has a contradiction in his own statements. The member knows he never before asked about this most recent report to which he’s referring; he asked about a 2006 report and I gave him the numbers on that.
The member himself said the report is posted on bulletin boards. It was not me who said this report was posted. I did not encourage the member to look at bulletin boards, as he just suggested I did. The member himself said it was on bulletin boards. Clearly, if that is the case, this report is available.
I would remind the member opposite that air quality reports and tests are ongoing in every government workplace and in corporations of the government, like the Yukon Hospital Corporation. Ministers do not see each and every report. If there are issues that require action at the ministerial level, they are brought to our attention by the qualified staff of the departments or of the Hospital Corporation or other corporations, if they are under a corporation.
The member is standing here suggesting that the staff at the Yukon Hospital Corporation, who have the responsibility to comply with the Occupational Health and Safety Act, are not following their responsibility. I’m very disappointed the member would do that.
If there’s any report, by the member’s own assertion, they’ve made that available to their employees.
Mr. Mitchell: I want to make this very clear for the minister responsible. It’s the minister’s job to solve problems, not play date games as to what date and which report, or shell games and hope we don’t find what’s under the other shell.
Unparliamentary language
Speaker: If memory serves me, we’ve ruled the shell game terminology out of order. Honourable member, carry on, please.
Mr. Mitchell: We’re never sure which games the minister is playing.
The report the minister refuses to make public also said this: the dusty condition in the office is causing discomfort and adverse effects on workers, in contravention of the Occupational Health and Safety Act. It also said the hospital had no system of recording the timing and location of air quality complaints in the hospital.
These are very serious concerns, concerns this government refused to make public.
Instead of chastising the opposition for raising these questions, the minister should do his job, talk to the chair of the corporation and make sure they’re being addressed. When will these concerns be addressed? Does the minister have any other reports on air quality he’s refusing to disclose?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: I will give the member the benefit of the doubt that perhaps someone else wrote his script for him and he didn’t read it before he came into the Assembly. That is the best possible excuse the member can have for the contradictions he has made in his own statements in his line of questioning.
The member himself stated that the recent air quality report at the hospital, to which he refers, is posted on several bulletin boards. The member also said that the report is a secret. How can be a secret if it’s posted on the bulletin boards? The member needs to make up his mind. This is really quite a silly game that he’s playing in this approach.
Some Hon. Member: (Inaudible)
Hon. Mr. Cathers: In answer to the heckling from the member opposite, I have not seen the report, but according to him, he’s seen it and it’s posted on the bulletin boards.
Again, I remind the member that staff and administration of the Hospital Corporation have the legal obligation under the Occupational Health and Safety Act. If they require it to be bumped up to the ministerial level, I am confident that they will exercise their responsibility and make me aware of any assistance that is required from me. Unlike the member opposite, however, I have faith that they have done their jobs.
By the member’s own assertion, the report has been made available to employees and posted on bulletin boards. The member needs to get his script and his facts straight.
Speaker: Much to our disappointment, the time for Question Period has now elapsed.
Notice of government private members’ business
Hon. Mr. Cathers: Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 14.2(7), I wish to identify the motion standing in the name of the government private member to be called for debate on Wednesday, May 7. It is Motion No. 441, standing in the name of the Member for Klondike.
Speaker: We will now proceed with Orders of the Day.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
Hon. Mr. Cathers: I move that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole.
Speaker: It has been moved by the Government House Leader that the Speaker do now leave the Chair and that the House resolve into Committee of the Whole.
Motion agreed to
Speaker leaves the Chair
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
Chair (Mr. Nordick): I will now call Committee of the Whole to order. The matter before Committee of the Whole is Bill No. 11, First Appropriation Act, 2008-09.
Do members wish to take a brief recess?
All Hon. Members: Agreed.
Chair: Committee of the Whole will recess for 15 minutes.
Recess
Chair: I will now call Committee of the Whole to order.
Bill No. 11 — First Appropriation Act, 2008-09 — continued
Chair: The matter before the Committee is Bill No. 11, First Appropriation Act, 2008-09, Department of Health and Social Services.
Department of Health and Social Services – continued
Mr. Hardy: I left off yesterday talking about dental health. There are many questions I have in that area. In this department there are many questions, not just about dental health, but about palliative care, children with disabilities, what is happening with the young offender facilities, children’s receiving homes, territorial health access funding, nurse information line, early psychosis intervention and the buildings that we have out there and how they are being used. Are they being used, and what direction we are going in with the hospital and with recruitment of professionals to ensure we have a good health system as well as social assistance rates, welfare and health. This is a huge department, and there are many things to discuss.
What I am going to try to do is group some of my questions for the minister, and if the minister can try to address the questions as best he can, and if he feels he needs a little bit more time to get information back to me he could just indicate that, and I would be quite happy with that type of answer.
Because I left off with dental health, I’ll go back to it. I’ll be grouping some of the questions around that. Looking at some of the figures, what I said yesterday was the decrease in visitation to rural communities was a concern. Looking at the dentists who are being sent out, that stayed the same, but the dental therapists have dropped in that area. What is the government’s direction and why is that indicated in the budget?
I’ll name off about nine questions here, just on this one subject alone. Are dentists in private practice reimbursed for travel and accommodation in rural Yukon? I’m sure they are; I don’t think I need a long answer in that regard. What is the number of dentists we’re using at the present time? These are all contracts; it’s my understanding they’re all from private practices. We don’t have dentists in a department, so that would be a question. That’s more of a question than a statement from me.
We don’t have an employed dentist. My understanding is we use private dentists for that service. What is the number of the dentists we are using? Are all the dentists we use from the Yukon? If they’re not, what is the reasoning why we would need to get dentists from Outside?
As I’ve said, travel for dentists is up 17 percent, while for dental therapists it has seemed to remain the same. Is this a deterioration in dental health because the preventive program with therapists has not been very successful? I do know dental therapists are supposed to be doing a fair amount of preventive work, yet we seem to have a substantial increase for dentists themselves.
Do the dentists use the government facilities when in the communities? If so, how are they billed? How do we come to the amount that is billed back to the dentist for the use of the facilities, especially if they’re using it for private practice once they’re out in the communities?
My question would be: do dentists compensate the government for facility use, if and when they are using private practice? Do they work with the dental therapists in the communities themselves, do they go out with their own assistants, or is there coordination between the dental therapist and the dentist going out together?
Has the children’s dental program been evaluated and, if so, is that evaluation available? Would the minister make it available, if so, and if not, would the minister consider an evaluation of the program itself?
My final question: how many dental therapists are there right now, is this a full complement and is this — it’s the question I asked yesterday — the same number who were employed a few years ago, or have we seen a decrease or an increase in how many dental therapists we employ?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: First of all, with regard to questions asked by the Member for Whitehorse Centre — the Leader of the Third Party — yesterday when he was focusing on questions about the numbers of trips in 2007-08 and predicted for 2008-09, versus the 2006-07 actual trips, that was for dental therapists to travel throughout the territory. This is in a large part due to the fact that the program found that it is more efficient to have larger communities served by two therapists working together, which results in fewer trips, but a comparable level of service.
At this point in time, as far as the number of therapists is concerned, no, there has been no decrease in the number of positions that exist. As I indicated to the member opposite, we had a period of time when we had a considerable number of those positions vacant. They were fully staffed. At this point in time, I don’t have the information available — since it is operational in nature — on whether we have any vacancies or it is fully staffed. There is typically some turnover in that area, but at this point in time we have certainly not had vacancies causing operational problems, which we did several years ago. The program is functioning well at this point in time.
As far as dentists are concerned, they are reimbursed for travel, in accordance with an arrangement for their services. They are contracted then to provide those services in rural Yukon. All our dentists are operating in private practice. There are none who are employees of the Yukon government. As far as the numbers of dentists travelling, because it is through contract that can vary, particularly when a practice is contracted. There is some potential that that might result in a different dentist going at a different point in time. It is a bit of a moving target; it can vary from time to time.
As far as the increase in dentist travel, another thing I would make the member aware of, which also relates to the number of dentists we contract for this, is we’ve had a shortage in the past in the availability of dentists to travel to rural Yukon and still face some challenges in that area. Therefore, to some extent, that is driven based on the availability of dentists to do that travel.
All dentists who provide those services at the current time are from Yukon. At one point in the past, as the member will likely recall from previous debates, we had a contract with a clinic in Hay River, as there were no Yukon dentists who were willing to provide the services to some of the rural communities we wished to have dental services provided to. At this point in time, we do still have challenges in the total availability of dentists. We have been successful in getting more trips from Yukon dentists than was the case several years ago; however, we no longer have the contract with the Hay River practice as they did not wish to continue that. Overall in the Yukon, there is a fairly high demand for dental services, as well as in the Whitehorse area, versus the availability of dentists.
The member was asking if dentists out on the road used government facilities; yes, that is the case. As far as whether they pay the government for it, no, what is standard in contracts — both with dentists and physicians — is if the government is contracting a private practice space from a doctor — which is usually the case when it applies — the standard would be to pay them for those overhead costs as a portion of the contract.
In the case of dentists operating in rural Yukon, we simply do not pay them in the contract for overhead costs they do not incur on the contract. For those portions of overhead that are covered in a government facility, the government simply pays for them directly, rather than paying the dentist to provide those services and allocate overhead as part of that overall contract, then bill them back. It makes far more sense to simply provide the services and contract the dentist for the service they’re actually providing.
As far as whether they work on their own or with assistants, sometimes dentists travel with an assistant, sometimes they may be working with a dental therapist, and sometimes a combination of the two might occur.
As far as whether an evaluation report has been done, no, one has not been done. There is of course ongoing programming evaluation, as there is within other areas of the department, on the effectiveness of the program, but there has not been a specific report done in this area.
As I indicated to the member, we can certainly relay to him and others who are interested that the program is working with a higher level of staffing than it was in past years but there are still challenges in this area. There is a national shortage of dental therapists and the competition for the limited number of therapists is fierce. As I indicated before, the department’s efforts to recruit dental therapists have been successful through changes in innovations in the recruiting approach, as well as the annual recruitment trips to the National School of Dental Therapy. The Yukon will be hosting a pan-territorial conference for dental therapists this June, which is aimed at raising the profile of the Government of Yukon as an employer of choice, as well as accomplishing the other standard results that are desired from national conferences — the sharing of information and best practices and so forth.
The Yukon children’s dental program has been able to achieve its top public health priorities for this past year. This includes completing 92 percent of the sealants and 94 percent of topical fluorides as of April 28, 2008.
I believe that answers the member’s questions with regard to the dental program.
Mr. Hardy: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the minister.
I think he addressed some of them. I won’t go on at length on this topic. We have a lot to cover. I do appreciate the minister addressing the questions, and hopefully we can continue.
If I have more questions, I’ll be asking them probably in the fall, when continuing the debate on this.
I am going to look at some of the other areas as well in Health and Social Services, and then probably move on.
The Thomson Centre — I understand that it’s pretty well ready to be used now, and I am trying to make sure that I don’t go along the same line of questioning as the Health critic for the Liberals, so that we don’t have to duplicate too much. Even though maybe I don’t agree necessarily with the questioning, nor even the answers or lack of answers, I don’t want to go over and over the same thing, but there might be some repetition here. However, I do understand that the Thomson Centre is pretty well ready to be used now. The concern of course is finding enough nurses, which seems to be epidemic across this country.
One of the suggestions I have heard from people is that this centre could be used for mental health and addictions in-patient care; and it does not necessarily need the nursing staff right there; it is connected to the hospital.
Has that or any other option been considered for the centre itself? Is the minister waiting for the first graduating class of LPNs that is starting this fall to help relieve some of the pressure in the nursing profession to get the Thomson Centre up and running to its full capacity?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: I thought I noted it yesterday, but perhaps the member hasn’t had the opportunity to review Hansard from yesterday, or perhaps I was not sufficiently clear in my wording to answer him. With regard to the Thomson Centre, there is significant capital work that needs to be done. We do know the scope of it; it is a known amount and a known challenge. At this point in time, as I indicated in debate discussion yesterday with the Leader of the Official Opposition, the challenge we are facing there is primarily related to staffing. The member is correct in noting that we are waiting to see the success of the changes that have been made in the staffing model and recruitment incentives for staff at Copper Ridge Place, as well as work being done internally as part of strategic planning and the health care review to ensure that there is a plan and that we can be confident we’ll see the opening of that building and actually staff it, rather than opening it and unexpectedly having a staffing problem, as was the case with Copper Ridge.
The LPN program is part of our overall staffing needs and will certainly be helpful in the case of the Thomson Centre. As to whether the Thomson Centre will be open before or after the first class graduates is something that at this point in time I cannot say definitively, but it is my hope that it will be open prior to that first class graduating. The Thomson Centre would likely open, not all at once, but in one or more phases.
In answer to the capital question that I expect the member will ask next — why not just do the capital immediately. We know the capital challenges, we know what needs to be done and we know the approximate length of time it will take to do those upgrades. One of the unexpectedly quick challenges we are now facing is staffing as a result of national shortages.
It was determined that it would be better to leave that until we know that we have an approach to staffing, recruitment and retention that we can be confident will work, rather than allocating what is significant capital dollars. It is about the sequencing of priorities. There is, of course, a myriad of competing potential capital projects in many departments. All of them are important in nature, so rather than allocating millions of dollars toward a project that would potentially sit vacant for some time until the staffing issues are fully addressed, it was Cabinet’s determination that the most appropriate course of action would be to utilize those capital dollars elsewhere. At a certain point in time, whether it’s later this year or beyond — again, my hope is that it would be late this fiscal year — capital steps can be taken to bring the Thomson Centre back into full operation.
The major issues that remain in need of addressing at the Thomson Centre include upgrades to the heating, ventilation and air circulation system. It is adequate for occupancy in an office context, but there is a higher standard and higher code for a care facility, so some upgrades have to be done. It was not built to an adequate requirement in the first place. As well, there are changes that need to be made to the nurse call system, which again was not quite adequate at that point in time and certainly does not meet modern standards. That is another part of the significant capital cost. The other major capital cost is simply in miscellaneous movable equipment, such as beds, carts and so on, that were stripped from the Thomson Centre and moved to Copper Ridge Place at that time, in the interest of saving costs and utilizing the mobile equipment.
I hope that has addressed the member’s question in that area. As far as mental health and addiction, I know we have discussed this numerous times in the past in this Assembly. In fairness to the member opposite, I have probably not had those discussions with him.
The possibility of using the Thomson Centre for other options, including mental health and addiction services or as a secure unit, had been proposed by some. We had a report done a few years ago by a group called Options Consulting. They reviewed the functional options for Thomson Centre and considered the possible uses, and it was the recommendation of Options Consulting, which we accepted, that Thomson Centre was well laid out — if not quite architecturally sound at that point in time — for continuing care. To renovate it to adequately provide secure units or facilities for mental health or addictions would cost millions of dollars. It would be expensive and then, because the predicted growth in demand for continuing care will require all the beds in Thomson Centre within the next several years, we would be faced with the situation whereby a significant amount of money would be spent on renovating Thomson Centre to address mental health and addiction counselling and services. That would then take away the potential for continuing care beds and there would still be another building required. Therefore, the more effective approach would simply be to either renovate the hospital or build a new building entirely for mental health and addiction services.
Those possible future capital projects are part of the strategic planning that is being done right now by the Hospital Corporation. They’re looking at the demand for services, both current and predicted, and they’ll be reviewing that and working closely with the Department of Health and Social Services on the strategic planning underway internally there, as well as feeding into the overall health care review being done by the panel that’s doing the high-level review of pressures on the health care system.
The simple answer to the member’s question is that, to use the Thomson Centre for mental health and addiction services, it would be more expensive in terms of capital projects than to simply build a building, or renovate a building, specifically for those services and use Thomson Centre for the purpose for which it was designed, which is continuing care.
Mr. Hardy: That’s interesting. The minister touched on Copper Ridge Place. Like I say, there’s definitely a repeat of some of the questions, but sometimes you get a little clearer answer the second time around, or maybe it’s just the way the question is presented. I do appreciate the minister’s willingness to try to address the questions I give, even if I do repeat myself. Or, I don’t repeat myself — I’m repeating what someone else has said. I don’t necessarily agree with the way they say it sometimes.
I would like a clarification here. My understanding from talking to a lot of people is that the building now is structurally sound. The indication he gave was that the HVAC system and the communication system — the call system for the nurses — as well as the pros and cons of turning the building into something other than it was originally designed for, that the costs — that possibly it may be cheaper to build a new building or make renovations to the hospital or whatever. We don’t need to go into that. I heard that fairly clearly. I just want to know at what stage is the Thomson Centre? If it’s just the HVAC system, if it’s structurally sound now, it would not take much. Once a decision is made or when the staffing problems can be addressed, would it not take long then to be able to address the outstanding issues? That building could be up and in full use in a fairly short period of time, if we can address the staffing issues.
Hon. Mr. Cathers: In answer to the member’s question, that is correct. In fact, the building is now deemed to be structurally sound, and the remaining work is of a nature that has significant costs, but the member is correct in guessing that it is something that has a predicted timeline associated with it. It should not take a significant amount of time to complete those repairs, noting of course that any changes to the HVAC system and the nurse call system, et cetera, do take some time, as with any construction and renovation project. But it is interior work, with the exception of a few minor issues such as doors that may need to be upgraded or replaced, which still needs to be done. There are no issues with the building envelope, as they refer to it. It is now deemed to be structurally sound.
But again, ye, the member is correct. The question right now is primarily ensuring that (a) we are able to staff the Thomson Centre and (b) we are confident we are going to be able to continue to keep it staffed. That work is being done internally as part of the evaluation going on through the strategic plan and as part of the health care review. We will be reporting back late in this calendar year, which would lead to the hoped-for outcome that once we receive that report we would see a position whereby decisions are made and timelines are announced for reopening the Thomson Centre.
Mr. Hardy: The minister touched on Copper Ridge Place in a couple of his previous answers. I guess I won’t go over all the questions again around Copper Ridge Place, but just based on a priority level, if we get any new nurses would Copper Ridge Place be the priority rather than the Thomson Centre? Is that the priority right now within the department? Is Copper Ridge Place first over Thomson Centre, based on staffing issues that both of them face?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: I am not sure if this is the direction the member was wishing to go with this, or perhaps I am misunderstanding what he is asking. We don’t put one building at a higher priority than another. They are both facilities that we hope to have up and running, but at this point in time Copper Ridge Place is the one in which we have clients and residents. Having that wing that we had opened for a short time before we had a reduction in staffing levels — priority number one would be to get that wing back up and running. It is hoped that by early summer, if the staffing the department believes and hopes it will have in place in terms of new recruitment comes to be, then we will be able to reopen that 12-bed wing. Thomson Centre then is the next step.
The Thomson Centre then is the next facility on Continuing Care’s radar screen and that of course is to address the demand that we will be facing very shortly — an increase in the number of people needing such a facility — and of course in fact we are dealing with that to some extent right now, but the Thomson Centre is the next building on the horizon. I hope that has answered the member’s question.
Mr. Hardy: Yes, Mr. Chair, I believe it does. My question very simply: what is the priority in the department, not necessarily around buildings but needs? A wing at Copper Ridge Place had to be shut down because of staffing issues. I just wanted it confirmed that as soon as that can be addressed, the staffing issues will be addressed at Copper Ridge Place. The building is there, the facilities are there, everything is in place — by my understanding. We need to get that up and running. We don’t want to find that that stays shut and that staffing issues somewhere else are being addressed immediately over that.
My understanding is the minister did say “priority number one”, of course, and I agree with that.
A lot of questions have been asked around the hospital, and a lot have been asked in this sitting already.
I do have questions but, looking at them, I think I am going to move on. I think some of them I already asked. Some of them definitely can be asked but will not be answered, such questions concerning the contract negotiations and stuff like that. My long history in that area knows what the answer would be and knows exactly what I would say too, so I am not going to spend any time on that area.
Questions around the hospital of course involve auxiliaries and flexibility and all that. I just put them on record, but I think they have been asked already and debated quite a bit, so I am not going to go there.
The children’s receiving home is something that we have asked a lot about over the last while. My understanding of some of the things in that area — and I could be wrong — is that there is a report on remediation or replacement of it. If the report is finished or out, I have not seen it. It could be my fault, as I said, but I am not the critic for this department, but if not, what is anticipated, and when would it be available?
My concern is about the separating of girls and boys, and finding a new home, and is there an interim plan around that?
My understanding is that the KDFN has offered space for a receiving home. Has the minister been able to respond to that?
I guess those would be the questions I have in that area for now.
Hon. Mr. Cathers: Yes, I think that the member noted in the earlier part of this last question about Copper Ridge Place — the simple answer is yes. The first area of priority for new nurses and LPNs hired would be to go to the area we have positions created that are, in some cases, vacant. That is Copper Ridge Place, where staff is needed to run the last 12-bed wing.
With regard to the Hospital Corporation, the member is correct. As he noted, of course I cannot comment on contract negotiations. As far as staffing at the hospital and the mention of the use of auxiliary on-call staff versus other types of positions, again those are matters that are currently being reviewed by the Hospital Corporation. As the member will be aware, the CEO who was hired late last year is part of the ongoing work and strategic planning, which includes working with managers and staff to discuss the appropriateness of their current staffing model. They share the common goal that we have, which is ensuring the hospital operates effectively and that the manner in which it engages and works with staff is as effective as possible in meeting not only the needs of patients and hospital operations, but also the needs and interests of the employees. It is to make the hospital a good workplace and a choice that is competitive nationally in terms of being a good place to work, and to deliver effective care to patients.
As far as the children’s receiving home, the report to which the member referred has not quite been finalized. Work is ongoing right now with the department and with Property Management Agency to look at the issues at the receiving home and to bring forward a report, including options and recommendations, for Cabinet consideration on repairing or replacing the children’s receiving home. Beyond that, it would be premature for me to comment to the member opposite or speculate on any detail this might mean. However, suffice it to say that regarding the issues around mould and asbestos, we are assured by Environmental Health and those who have expertise in that area that as long as those areas are not disturbed, they do not provide any risk to the staff or the children in the receiving home. They are matters that should prudently be addressed.
Also, as the member will be aware, there are issues in terms of the layout of the receiving home, et cetera, which at some point in time would require either repair and renovation or the building will simply be replaced with a new one that would better serve the needs.
I hope that has answered the member’s question.
Mr. Hardy: Some of them. I’ll move on. I won’t go back to that one.
The VictimLINK information line seems to have had problems reaching clients. What is being done around this? My understanding is part of it was lack of communications. What is actually being done with this program right at the moment?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: The VictimLINK program is actually under the Department of Justice, so I would direct the member to ask the minister his questions. I don’t have any information to provide him with about VictimLINK.
Mr. Hardy: I thank the minister for that. It is not a problem. I will direct my questions in that area.
Early psychosis intervention — this is for youth in schools from my understanding and, from the pamphlet Reality Rules! it appears to be for information only with present contacts listed. Is there anything new as far as counselling, treatment or intervention being done right now or planned in this area?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: Yes, the early psychosis intervention approach is part of a new project that has been started under the territorial health access fund. I can’t recall what year we kicked it off but the work is developing right now. It was last year when we commenced the project.
The early psychosis intervention program is being developed right now to do things, including increasing the capacity of clinical staff to be up-to-date with knowledge, policy development, clinical interventions and increased capacity with clients and their families to engage in mutual aid and support for each other. As part of the development of this early psychosis program and increased support and early intervention, the pamphlet to which the member is referring would be to increase public awareness that there are new services in place.
As the member will be aware, one of the reasons for developing the program is that there has been a demand in the past and a feeling that this area was not as well served as it could be. The supports and changes we have made in mental health include contracting a second full-time psychiatrist, the youth clinician based out of Whitehorse, and the change that I referred to earlier that came out of information we had received from the Children’s Act consultation, in part, that being to set up a structure for children who need residential and therapeutic treatment outside the territory.
Previously, if a child was in the care and custody of the government and the director of family and children’s services, they could receive such treatment if they needed it but parents were not able to access that treatment for their child if their child was not in the care and custody of the director, even if a psychiatrist has diagnosed a need for it.
So we have, as I indicated before, made that change and put that program in place. If a psychiatrist’s diagnosis notes a need for such services, which do occur in a rare but significant number of cases, there is the ability for parents, by choice through the mental health branch, to arrange for such services to be provided. This, to date, has occurred in at least one case. As much as we regret that such a service is necessary, we are pleased to have been able to make the change to make this available to parents whose child is in need of such services.
Mr. Hardy: I thank the minister for that.
Palliative care has been in the news in the last day. The minister has referred to it in the last couple of days, as well as today during tributes. I just have a couple of questions in that area. Will the care be covered under the YHCIP? Hospice is coordinating palliative care in rural Yukon using education services now available, such as health centres and home care. Is this overloading the services that we already have — for instance, the nursing services? Is there other support for them? We do know how much strain there already is on the nurses in the rural areas. I am just wondering if we are using volunteers in that area. Have we offered other services, help or support in this extremely sensitive and difficult time for people?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: The services in this new palliative care program are under the continuing care branch, not under insured health. It’s a program that’s available to the public; it’s not on a fee basis, if that’s what the member is asking. It is a service that’s made available.
In reference to community care providers, such as nurses and other front-line providers, what I can inform the member — I think he may be misunderstanding or questioning at least what this is doing — the intent is not to have these front-line providers such as nurses in communities take on more of a load than they were before. A key part of the program is supporting them in dealing with what they already face.
If someone is facing their own death or facing the loss of a family member in rural Yukon, quite commonly they would go to the nurses at the nursing station. One of the key objectives of this program is to assist these service providers, because they are trained in health care.
Palliative care is a specialized area and it is a very great challenge. The situation occurs that the same people who are drawn to provide these services and assistance to those dealing with end-of-life issues tend to be driven by their compassion, by their caring, by their desire to help. As a result, because they care, they are also often very deeply affected by those challenges.
The palliative care program will help these front-line service providers, including community nurses, who have to assist someone dealing with end-of-life issues, with determining how they can cope themselves. If a person cannot remain healthy and functioning — if they are too emotionally burdened by the challenges that the person coming to them for help is facing — it makes it difficult for them to provide the help to that person and to others and makes it very difficult for them to function in their own lives and with their families.
The palliative care program provides people with information on coping techniques, strategies and appropriate approaches that have been tested in other jurisdictions and helps individuals cope with the challenges they may face at the end of life due to an illness, or helps a family member or friend deal with that.
I hope that has made it clear to the member. The objective here is not to ask those front-line staff to take on more load but to help them effectively deal with the load they currently face and help them effectively deal with providing services to somebody who has need of them. A nurse, for example, would typically be trained in matters related to nursing, and palliative care, and end-of-life techniques and services, et cetera, are not something that are typically part of that curriculum and education. This is aimed at helping them effectively deal with those matters.
Mr. Hardy: Children with disabilities program — this is new, I believe. Could the minister give me the definition that is used for “disability”? For instance, does it include autism, mental and emotional problems and FASD? What does it offer? What stats do we have at this point on the number of disabled children?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: There’s not a simple answer to the member opposite on exactly what a disability is, because it can vary. One part of the program is to provide increased resources for clinical assessment and professional and multidisciplinary teams to work together on determining the appropriate therapies for the child, and work with the family to do so.
The member is correct; it is a new program. It was an election commitment we made in this area, and the key objective is to assist families in caring for their disabled child, particularly those with severe disabilities, in the home environment, and to support the development of that child and the ability of that child to function effectively in the world, and to continue to grow their abilities.
Significant parts of the program are based on Alberta’s program. We’ve borrowed from that in large part, but the key part of this is building on the services we made available to parents of autistic children, and the support we provided to Autism Yukon for involving those parents in choosing the appropriate therapies for their child. A key part of this was expanding on the service we implemented in the last mandate, making it available to all children with disabilities and expanding the support beyond that which was previously provided to autistic children.
As well, the total amount that we have increased in this fiscal year is now at $436,000. There were some services in place, but a new program has been formed and new costs are estimated at $436,000 for this fiscal year, which includes two new positions: a social worker for children with disabilities and an administrative assistant.
There is funding for contracted supportive contribution agreements with professionals in this area, but — as the member can see from that number — that $436,000 will still go a long way in assisting parents in choosing the therapies appropriate for their children.
I would also inform the member that we officially launched the program on April 1, but there is some development being done. We have received some feedback from some of the organizations, including Autism Yukon and the Learning Disabilities Association of Yukon and foster parents. I know I am missing a couple, but there were several that had jointly signed a letter to me expressing some desire to collaborate further on discussion of the program. That is something that will be occurring. We will be working with these organizations and with individual parents to ensure that the program that was officially launched April 1 is in fact implemented in a way that does meet their needs. It is deliberately planned that, over this first year of official operation, there will be some modifications to the program based on working with these NGOs and with parents directly on assessing the needs of their children and how to best support that.
Mr. Hardy: I thank the minister for giving me some information around this new program. It’s definitely one we support. We applaud the government for moving forward on this.
I will just ask four quick questions about the young offenders facility. What are the numbers of young offenders in the facility currently? What are the numbers on average? Answers to both those questions would be nice. What is the gender breakdown? How many are girls or boys? Generally, on average, how long are they in the facility? What follow-up help is given once they leave the young offenders facility?
If the minister has that information right now, that’s great; if not, I would be quite happy to have him send something over to me in the next while.
Hon. Mr. Cathers: The number of youth in the young offenders facility is an answer I don’t have in front of me. The member had asked the typical length of stay; I don’t have that with me, either. As far as the current occupancy, as of April 2008, the number of total youth was four. That number includes three youth from the previous month and one new admission. At that point in time, all of the youth were male.
I have a list from over the past year, which I doubt the member wants me to relay fully at this point in time, but I will give him some numbers: in April 2007, there were nine youth in custody — six males, three females; in May 2007, there were 10 — seven males, three females; in June 2007, also 10 — seven males, three females; same for July 2007; for August 2007, the number was seven — four males, three females; in September, the number was eight — five males, three females; in October, the number was six, all males; November 2007, there were eight — six males, two females; in December 2007, there were three males; January 2008, there were seven, again all males; in February 2008, there were five, again all males; in March 2008, there were seven — six males, one female. Again, the number for April was four, all male.
I think that addresses the member’s question with the exception of the length of stay, which again I don’t have directly with me, but the member can get a sense of that from the statistics from the past year.
Mr. Hardy: Thank you for those numbers. What is the capacity of the building? How many was it built to house?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: Mr. Chair, I don’t have the number in front of me and I can’t recall off the top of my head. It is a question I haven’t addressed for some time. I will get back to the member on the number for that rather than taking what I think would be an accurate guess. For expenditures in this area, though — which, to an extent, are supported by youth criminal justice renewal through the federal Department of Justice. We are obligated by the youth justice program to provide these services. The amount of the expenditure in this area is $4,005,000 for this year.
Mr. Hardy: Family services and child protection services — 60 percent of the families served in family services and 62 percent of the families served in child protection services are one-parent families. Is there any difference in approach compared to a two-parent family in how we deal with it?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: Regardless of whether it is a one- or two-parent family, the approach varies based on each case, so it is not something I can give the member. If he is looking for a comparative example, I think the answer is that there really isn’t any differentiation made between one- or two-parent families. The approach is based upon the needs of each particular case.
Mr. Hardy: Are there any stats on how many children are in the care of extended family members?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: I don’t have those numbers with me, and I’m not certain if we do have them either.
One thing I want to emphasize is that one of the components of the new Child and Family Services Act is that we believe that the changes made in this legislation will assist in helping children be placed with extended family. Of course, in the past, although a court could decide to place a child with extended family, there was no legislative requirement for a child to be placed with extended family as the first consideration if they had to be placed into foster care.
The new legislation, which was passed earlier in this sitting, does place a requirement for extended family to be considered first for placement and secondly, if that extended family is not available or not appropriate — and willing members are available — then the child’s cultural community would be considered next for foster placement. That includes adoptive purposes as well.
Mr. Hardy: Thank you.
I only have a few more questions right now and I appreciate the answers I’m getting. I have to say debate is going quite well. I’m very pleased with this.
Children in care — of course, population in care and custody of the department was 3.5 percent of the Yukon population. Has there been any comparison with other jurisdictions? Are we at the top on a percentage basis in care and custody? Are we on average?
Hon. Mr. Cathers: Mr. Chair, as far as numbers compared to other jurisdiction, it does vary. There is a fairly significant rate, as the member is aware. The north has had problems in the past with disproportionate representation in the area of family violence, et cetera. Of course, any number is too high in this area. That’s why, through a number of approaches, including but not limited to the new Child and Family Services Act, we hope to assist in reducing the numbers that are affected.
Other approaches include, of course, the substance abuse action plan, domestic violence treatment option and community court. There are a number of approaches that are being taken through many departments to try to help families become healthier. We are trying, through the new Child and Family Services Act, to reduce the level of intervention that is necessary and focus more on cooperative planning, discussions with community and family involvement — involvement of extended family, et cetera — and an increased focus on attempting to return children home as soon